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Post by hannahadsmith on May 23, 2011 12:11:06 GMT -5
I totally agree it is connected to her own mother and the loss of her father as a child herself. There is a certain vulnerability to Cristina that Owen totally gets- we saw that in the exam room scene when he was gently encouraging her about her capabilities.
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Post by justine on May 23, 2011 12:28:22 GMT -5
As for me, totally melt by the way Owen speaks to Cristina in the exam room and outside on the bench.
Really touched by the deep love he feels for her. And the plain answer he gave her to her question on how much he loves her: "I love you a very great deal"
Awwwwww, me dying...!
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Post by trinity on May 23, 2011 13:05:44 GMT -5
I know some here have mentioned that Owen was kind of harsh when he told Cristina to leave, but if you remember, he did promise that he wouldn't go anywhere again and wouldn't go anywhere without her. In that respect I think he was keeping his promise in a wierd way, plus he knew she would end up at Merediths' so it wasn't like she was being kicked to the curb. Anyway just a thought. He only said it after she announced "I don't want to talk about this" and then shouted "I said NO." I've watched the scene again a couple of times, and I'm now convinced telling her to "get out" wasn't at all OOC for Owen. And you make the excellent point that he knew she would go to Meredith anyway. Cristina's whole approach to that scene felt manipulative to me. She begins by saying "How much do you love me?" which, given what was coming, really feels like a set up. The closest she gets to an apology, or any acknowledgement of his feelings, was to say "I'm sorry if this upsets you. . ." I think Owen needed to do what he did. She really had no concept that she had crossed a line; she took him and his love for her totally for granted. Owen has always been there, has put up with snarkiness, messiness, drunken lap dances with strangers, "no sex" rules, all of it. It never occurred to her that there was anything she could do that would drive him away. Although she may have hesitated in responding when he asked "do you trust me" the fact is that she did, or at least she trusted him to put up with whatever she handed out. Even at Mer's, when she says "I'm getting an abortion and Owen kicked me out of my house" she still sounds incredulous. It's only in that last shot of her, on the couch at Mer's, that I think she is starting to understand that she has put her marriage at risk by what she has done. Marryme, Hope ITA with you both. I have made that remark of why Owen stays and tells Cristina to leave on other site. He is not going anywhere, he is there in that marriage, Cristina is the one who is not totally in it. That's why she had leave. And of course Owen knew she would go to Meredith's.
And Cristina was a bit blackmailing Owen when he asked him how much he loved her. She knew that what she did was wrong, yet she believed that if Owen loves that much he would forgive her everything. Only there on Mer's couch, she's starting to realize that she might have pushed things too far this time.
Her behavior in this episode reminded me a bit of what she told Owen in last season's episode "Invest in Love" (where Cris went on rogue). She told Owen that she always did what she wanted, without her parents having any say in it. It's clear that the background where she comes from has a say in her behavior, a wealthy family, lived Beverly Hill, had anything she wanted and did anything she wanted. Owen - as little background they presented - comes from a normal family who had a total different relationship with his parents than Cristina had.
Owen's reaction might have been what Cristina needed to finally "grow up" and starting to realize that she can no longer take decisions by herself and might start not taking all the love that Owen has for her for granted and value even more that she has a man like Owen by her side who has always been there to support her.
Oh and one final thought: Owen tells Cristina that she can be more than she thinks she can, that she would a be great mother and gets bashed and Derek tells Meredith that she might be a bad mother and yet he's still Mcdreamy. How does that work?
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Post by hopew on May 23, 2011 13:40:19 GMT -5
Oh and one final thought: Owen tells Cristina that she can be more than she thinks she can, that she would a be great mother and gets bashed and Derek tells Meredith that she might be a bad mother and yet he's still Mcdreamy. How does that work? In fairness, Trinity, Derek is getting some serious bashing for that remark on the message boards. But you're still right. Among the things I liked about this episode was how Owen handled himself with Cristina. Even though she is refusing to really talk about her reasons for not wanting to continue the pregnancy beyond saying over and over "I don't want a baby", Owen is able to see and tries to address at least part of the fears she is expressing. And out there, there are still people complaining that what he was doing was pressuring her and ordering her to have the child. Which is just not what happened on the screen. Oh well.
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Post by MarryMeOwen on May 23, 2011 13:40:37 GMT -5
Cristina's whole approach to that scene felt manipulative to me. She begins by saying "How much do you love me?" which, given what was coming, really feels like a set up. The closest she gets to an apology, or any acknowledgement of his feelings, was to say "I'm sorry if this upsets you. . ." I think Owen needed to do what he did. She really had no concept that she had crossed a line; she took him and his love for her totally for granted. Oh and one final thought: Owen tells Cristina that she can be more than she thinks she can, that she would a be great mother and gets bashed and Derek tells Meredith that she might be a bad mother and yet he's still Mcdreamy. How does that work? I totally agree in my view she was being very manipulative in that scene because she knew how he felt about her and that he'd do anything for her. I kind of wanted him to say "I love you so much that I took a bullet and almost died for you" but he didn't. I totally agree on your thoughts abuot the double standard with Owen and Derek. some just have no sense of reality apparently. I mean Owen is supportive, he's being a jerk, when he is hurting and devastated because Cristina is saying she wants to abort his baby, he's a jerk. I just don't get it. I mean I see Cristina's point as well, but all I see is Cristina not considering his POV and also not having the courage to see her own potential.
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betinad
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Post by betinad on May 23, 2011 14:24:32 GMT -5
Please remember to use the SPOILER tags. I am modifying some of the posts to add them, I would appreciate if you can include them from the start
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Post by ella1967 on May 23, 2011 18:30:02 GMT -5
Okay y'all, no fair gabbing up a storm while some of us are working all day. Have been pondering both the SF and links from it to other episodes this season and what comes in S.8, so I hope. Will try my best to not simply restate what others have so ably already said while also trying to keep S.7 and S.8 in the separate threads in which they belong. So, here goes: It's interesting how each of the four characters they showed us under the outro VO have these same sort of 'I have to be alone' issues. - Owen came home from Iraq determined to self-isolate because no one would ever truly see him, Cristina carries huge abandonment fears and put up self-protective barriers to keep herself isolated as a result, Derek ran to Seattle after his marriage blew up in his face, and Meredith came home to Seattle for residency which coincided with her emotionally absent mother's rapid medical decline. These are people for whom relationships were frightening and impossible, yet they found something intrinsic in each other that brought them out of those beliefs. And now they're all hurting and trying to figure out how they can move forward. That being said, if we are to see this is a dilemma which turns things on their head for Cristina it's really a combination of the workplace issue of being in thrall to her instincts - a perversion of her talent, as it were - which holds her back from true professional greatness being also about how it clearly holds her back from personal greatness, from being able to see it's even an option. I think we're meant to see her bluster her way through - as marryme says - incapable of seeing another way to do it as a way to bring her up short by the end, to be realizing she's not in it alone anymore, except that if she keeps pushing along the way she has been, she will indeed be alone. Which coincides quite nicely with her urgent assertion to Owen in 7.1, 'I don't want to be alone.' And that's why the proposal happened the way it did. For Cristina to realize all she has and all she could lose by trying to move through life on her own agenda even while tying her life to Owen's during this season. All the way through S.7, and certainly the SF, Owen's in it with her until she breaks his trust and then he needs some space to recoup. Totally understandable. And it's the loss of one thing - not teachers, not chief resident - that brings Cristina up short. The loss of Owen next to her as she contemplates her situation on Meredith's couch. I still believe we're left with more questions than answers alongside the 'if I had a baby I would love it' comment, Owen's complete understanding of it and also Cristina's pissy response for important reasons. And my gut still tells me it's a purposeful parallel to how she responded to and how they dealt with professional challenges late in S.7. At first we saw her responding in a defiant manner, as we did here about the pregnancy and Owen's views, carping at her mentor and then arguing with Owen about chief resident. But where would be the cliffhanger if she, as I hoped, would step up before the end credits? So here she's stuck in defiant mode by end of episode and we're left wondering what they will do next. Irritating results, maybe brilliant writing, and certainly expected. I can't speak for those who believe it's enough to hear simply 'I don't want a baby.' I mean, not to sound glib but I don't want raisins in anything on my plate but I do have reasons why I don't that I could articulate for my husband who happens to love raisins. We've heard nothing, so far, from Cristina about her reasons and it would be incredibly okay for any caring, involved partner to get some of those reasons now that babies aren't an abstract concept any longer. Owen's attempts all day were to bring her back down from the freak out level at which she found herself by calmly asking her questions, making it real, making it something they could talk about. Cristina knew she was running scared by the end of the episode which is why she opened their conversation at home the way she did. They wanted to show her really stepping into it, making the biggest mistake possible, in order for Owen to turn away from her and request his own space to process his feelings. They had to end the season processing but at an impasse. This is a finale, after all. Side note: Also interesting is Cristina and Owen's placement as having the biggest and juiciest story leading into S.8 alongside Meredith and Derek. Seems to indicate that Owen and Cristina's storyline has been, perhaps, elevated to main character status on the show? And not just because of the twisted sister link. Finally!
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Post by hopew on May 23, 2011 21:01:01 GMT -5
Okay y'all, no fair gabbing up a storm while some of us are working all day. Have been pondering both the SF and links from it to other episodes this season and what comes in S.8, so I hope. Will try my best to not simply restate what others have so ably already said while also trying to keep S.7 and S.8 in the separate threads in which they belong. So, here goes: It's interesting how each of the four characters they showed us under the outro VO have these same sort of 'I have to be alone' issues. - Owen came home from Iraq determined to self-isolate because no one would ever truly see him, Cristina carries huge abandonment fears and put up self-protective barriers to keep herself isolated as a result, Derek ran to Seattle after his marriage blew up in his face, and Meredith came home to Seattle for residency which coincided with her emotionally absent mother's rapid medical decline. These are people for whom relationships were frightening and impossible, yet they found something intrinsic in each other that brought them out of those beliefs. And now they're all hurting and trying to figure out how they can move forward. That being said, if we are to see this is a dilemma which turns things on their head for Cristina it's really a combination of the workplace issue of being in thrall to her instincts - a perversion of her talent, as it were - which holds her back from true professional greatness being also about how it clearly holds her back from personal greatness, from being able to see it's even an option. I think we're meant to see her bluster her way through - as marryme says - incapable of seeing another way to do it as a way to bring her up short by the end, to be realizing she's not in it alone anymore, except that if she keeps pushing along the way she has been, she will indeed be alone. Which coincides quite nicely with her urgent assertion to Owen in 7.1, 'I don't want to be alone.' And that's why the proposal happened the way it did. For Cristina to realize all she has and all she could lose by trying to move through life on her own agenda even while tying her life to Owen's during this season. All the way through S.7, and certainly the SF, Owen's in it with her until she breaks his trust and then he needs some space to recoup. Totally understandable. And it's the loss of one thing - not teachers, not chief resident - that brings Cristina up short. The loss of Owen next to her as she contemplates her situation on Meredith's couch. I still believe we're left with more questions than answers alongside the 'if I had a baby I would love it' comment, Owen's complete understanding of it and also Cristina's pissy response for important reasons. And my gut still tells me it's a purposeful parallel to how she responded to and how they dealt with professional challenges late in S.7. At first we saw her responding in a defiant manner, as we did here about the pregnancy and Owen's views, carping at her mentor and then arguing with Owen about chief resident. But where would be the cliffhanger if she, as I hoped, would step up before the end credits? So here she's stuck in defiant mode by end of episode and we're left wondering what they will do next. Irritating results, maybe brilliant writing, and certainly expected. I can't speak for those who believe it's enough to hear simply 'I don't want a baby.' I mean, not to sound glib but I don't want raisins in anything on my plate but I do have reasons why I don't that I could articulate for my husband who happens to love raisins. We've heard nothing, so far, from Cristina about her reasons and it would be incredibly okay for any caring, involved partner to get some of those reasons now that babies aren't an abstract concept any longer. Owen's attempts all day were to bring her back down from the freak out level at which she found herself by calmly asking her questions, making it real, making it something they could talk about. Cristina knew she was running scared by the end of the episode which is why she opened their conversation at home the way she did. They wanted to show her really stepping into it, making the biggest mistake possible, in order for Owen to turn away from her and request his own space to process his feelings. They had to end the season processing but at an impasse. This is a finale, after all. Side note: Also interesting is Cristina and Owen's placement as having the biggest and juiciest story leading into S.8 alongside Meredith and Derek. Seems to indicate that Owen and Cristina's storyline has been, perhaps, elevated to main character status on the show? And not just because of the twisted sister link. Finally! As usual, I agree with much of what you've said, but there are one or two things to quibble with, just a little. Although most of what Owen did was to support her, encourage her to talk, and try to get her to see the bigger picture, there were some other agendas at work there. The exchange in their first scene in particular, where he says to her "how late are you?" and she IMMEDIATELY knows what he is doing. "Are you going all "lifey" on me?" she asks. When he says to her "Does it have hands?" he is really pushing his own agenda; really trying to make her think of the fetus as a child, not a toothache to be solved with an extraction. In his defense, he really DOESN'T know that she is 6 weeks pregnant; if he did, he would know that the fetus does in fact have hands at that stage and that would make his question even more confrontational. My point is that he isn't just trying to get her to talk about it; he also knows, as does she, that he has a preferred outcome here. The gloves come off when she says that children deserve parents who want them and he says, without hesitation, "I want them." Would she have been more receptive if he had been less definitive, less confrontational? I doubt it; that's not how Cristina operates. I think he had to confront her in order to get her to hear him at all. But I think it is this exchange that the people who say he was "pressuring her" to have the baby are thinking of; they just don't articulate it very well.
I'm finding the reaction of some "pro-choice" women on the message boards very interesting. I'm guessing that many of them are young and concerned that they themselves might have to have an abortion some day (or perhaps have already had one). There's a defensiveness in some of the reactions that I think is telling; I'm sure some of them don't want to think of a six week fetus "having hands." But they do. If you're at a stage in life where you may feel you need to have abortion as an available alternative, I think you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't at least acknowledge the full implications of it. As Cristina should as well, or she'll end up breaking down even more profoundly after the "procedure" than she did after her miscarriage.
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Post by Leanne on May 24, 2011 3:19:24 GMT -5
For new peeps the spoiler tag is done like this type your thoughts then hightlight the text go up to the small icon about your message window (add tags) the very last one on the second row a face with wide eyes click that and it will add the spoiler tags to your message
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Post by kaz on May 30, 2011 4:57:00 GMT -5
I've moved a couple of posts pertaining to polls to the tid bits thread so that this thread can be for discussion and member reviews of the episode and the links to the polls can have better visibility. Cheers Kaz
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Post by georgeseurat on Jul 30, 2011 11:54:29 GMT -5
Okay, finally had the time (and the opportunity, yes after 2 months) to catch back the finale of this season, and oh boy, Kevin and Sandra just blew me away. I agree. That "NO!" from Sandra is powerful, while that "Get out of here!" from Kevin is heartbreaking.
I have to say that I'm totally for Owen, but I also know Cristina's stand point. It's the typical "baby question" between a couple, and it's not easy to deal with. Glad that this comes between this couple, since the method they are going to handle is going to be mature than those others. I love the fact that Owen didn't force Cristina that she has to have the baby, but trying to convincing her. The only thing that he can't stand is that she make the abortion appoinment without his consent. And on the other hand, Cristina is afraid not because having a baby but due to this baby, her whole life is going to be changed. Not that she doesn't know that Owen is there to support her, but what about her career, her dream of being a surgeon, all these things. Even if as Owen said that he can quit his job, it doesn't mean that she can do what she has always done. It's just not going to be the same, and I feel that this is her fear.
I do think that Owen final action by throwing Cristina out of the house is, though risky, wise. Maybe a change of environment for Cristina might let her think about whether what she's done is really the correct way. Let alone, Owen needs space to after the "betrayal." Afterall, this is the typical "baby problem" that might spoil a marriage, and if they don't handle it with care, divorce is the answer. With this as the finale of this season, OBVIOUSLY O/C is not going to be ended in a few episodes. This certainly makes this couple to know more about each other. Moreover (disagree anyway if u don't think so, but that's just my thought), this show didn't make Owen a prick. Everything he said and acted so far were right, justifiable and mature. I don't think the writers are going to let him go. I agree that this line is one with a much higher calibre of acting and story subtance than the others. It digs with materials that are realistic, i.e. marriage is the start of everything (well at least in GA or the soap opera field, if u want a real realistic story about this topic, read/watch Revolutionary Road).
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