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Post by drwyatt on Aug 20, 2012 12:40:20 GMT -5
Sorry if i did this wrong, I don't know how to quote on this board yet. Owen and Meredith in a funny scene together I think he said "fun" not "funny". and fun for an actor can mean a lot of different things, I think. I think it is interesting that everyone hated 8.15 so much. Having been a therapist, I can tell you that it was very very true to life. Sometimes. They were there once, and they were all over the place, and then they quit. It was awful to watch, but felt very real to me. I've read so much creative beautiful fan fiction this summer, that brings them together in a few different ways. but I for one have faith that the same writers that made us fall in love the first time around can do it again. It's drama people, it's supposed to be dramatic And by the way, it's so nice to chat with people about the show who aren't endlessly bashing SR and the character of Owen.
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Post by trinity on Aug 20, 2012 13:25:48 GMT -5
Sorry if i did this wrong, I don't know how to quote on this board yet. Owen and Meredith in a funny scene together I think he said "fun" not "funny". and fun for an actor can mean a lot of different things, I think. I think it is interesting that everyone hated 8.15 so much. Having been a therapist, I can tell you that it was very very true to life. Sometimes. They were there once, and they were all over the place, and then they quit. It was awful to watch, but felt very real to me. I've read so much creative beautiful fan fiction this summer, that brings them together in a few different ways. but I for one have faith that the same writers that made us fall in love the first time around can do it again. It's drama people, it's supposed to be dramatic And by the way, it's so nice to chat with people about the show who aren't endlessly bashing SR and the character of Owen. First Hello and welcome! Re 8.15, it might sometimes be true and real what happened in that therapy session, but it was not true for Cristina and Owen and for them as a couple, especially what they did with Owen in that episode, it was horrid and did unjustice for his character. And I also do not think that it's true for Cristina's character to be so oblivious to her husband's pain. Nothing from that episode felt true to me. It's hard to tell if they quit after the first session or after more sessions, was never made clear. And we all know it's a drama and it is supposed to be dramatic - and no one asks for eternal happiness and angst free for Cristina and Owen - but if it is a drama then they better make it real and true to who those characters are. There were so many ways SR could have gone with C/O and create real, dramatic, mature stroyline for them but she did none of that. That's what bothers me and probably most of CO fans. Unfortunately, IMO, Shonda Rhimes has never realized what she created, or more exactly what Sandra and Kevin have created together. She wrote a great SL for them in S5, deep, mature and from there she didn't know what to do with them. And she fell with them into her old patter in creating cheap drama for the sake of drama. She doesn't realize the huge potential she has with this couple and those two very very talented actors and I'm afraid she never will. If she knew any of that then C/O wouldn't be where they are right now. I do believe that Cristina and Owen will find their way back but it will not erase the poor poor decisions Shonda has made for them in the last few seasons.
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Post by hopew on Aug 20, 2012 14:56:02 GMT -5
Sorry if i did this wrong, I don't know how to quote on this board yet. Owen and Meredith in a funny scene together I think he said "fun" not "funny". and fun for an actor can mean a lot of different things, I think. I think it is interesting that everyone hated 8.15 so much. Having been a therapist, I can tell you that it was very very true to life. Sometimes. They were there once, and they were all over the place, and then they quit. It was awful to watch, but felt very real to me. I've read so much creative beautiful fan fiction this summer, that brings them together in a few different ways. but I for one have faith that the same writers that made us fall in love the first time around can do it again. It's drama people, it's supposed to be dramatic And by the way, it's so nice to chat with people about the show who aren't endlessly bashing SR and the character of Owen. Hi drwyatt - welcome to the discussion! You've named yourself after one of my favorite Grey's characters! I can understand your observations about the 8.15 therapy session. I don't doubt that certain aspects of it were very true to a real session. My issue with the sessions shown in that episode was not with how difficult it was to watch or all over the place they were - the characters were dealing with huge emotional issues and the session had to be difficult and painful. My frustration was with the parts that sounded like Cristina and Owen were reciting different sides of a political agenda, instead of dealing with their emotional issues. I don't think Owen's problem is that he didn't believe that there are people who don't want children; I think he was deeply hurt that Cristina didn't want HIS child, and that she took steps to end that pregnancy without really talking to him about it. Cristina's side of that argument sounded more like talking points for someone arguing pro-choice (and, BTW, I am very, very strongly pro-choice), instead of someone dealing with her husband's hurt feelings and the impact that his pain and his inability to express it had had on their marriage. There were parts of the episode that DID feel real (mostly at the very beginning and the very end of the sessions, when it was clear how far apart they were emotionally), but some parts of the conversation just felt political not personal, as though they were serving some agenda other than the story and the characters. Maybe that happens in real therapy sessions, but doesn't the therapist then try to bring the participants back to the reasons they are really there and away from politics and platitudes? I completely agree with you that Shonda and the writers created something entirely unique in Season 5. I keep waiting for them to re-discover whatever magic they were using then and include it in what we see on the screen. It's a measure of what a great job they did initially that so many of us are still hanging on and hoping they can write Cristina and Owen's, and our, way out of this! We had a full season of seeing all the reasons that Cristina and Owen shouldn't be together; I'd like Season 9 to show us why they still should be and remind us of what we all loved about them in the first place. BTW, to quote, just click on "quote" above the post you want to quote in your response. The box for your reply will include the original post at the top, and you start to type just below it.
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Post by drwyatt on Aug 20, 2012 18:40:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the welcome! I get what you're saying hopew. But I felt that especially for cristina, intellectualizing is her defense mechanism, so all of her ranting about her rights felt entirely in character to me. Owen's inability to get to the point, that she didn't want his baby, is more of a puzzle. or a manipulation to further the plot that they had preordained. And yes, tania, a better therapist would/should have reined them both in at some point because no one in their right mind would return after that session. But I have to tell you, couples in heated disagreement were my least favorite kind of work, because it is next to impossible to get them off their own angry high horses to listen to a word the other one is saying. Sigh, is it sept 27th yet? and d**n it all , but I have a social obligation that night!! If my DVR craps out on me I may need to check myself in somewhere like Lexie.
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Post by trinity on Aug 20, 2012 19:24:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the welcome! But I felt that especially for cristina, intellectualizing is her defense mechanism, so all of her ranting about her rights felt entirely in character to me. Not Cristina intellectualizing is the problem and the untrue part for her character but her absolute innability and obliviousness to see Owen's pain. When past seasons have shown how capable Cristina is in understanding Owen's pain. In her own words "I may be insensitive sometimes, but I'm not oblivious." And that's how Cristina has been for more than half of the season. And Owen may have problems expressing how he feels but he can make a coherent speech and make Cristina understand during that session that his problem was - as Hopew said - Cristina not even considering for a second having his baby. It was just a twist and turn and incoherent scenes just to drag the drama longer, because they needed Owen to cheat.
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Post by hopew on Aug 21, 2012 7:35:17 GMT -5
But I felt that especially for cristina, intellectualizing is her defense mechanism, so all of her ranting about her rights felt entirely in character to me. Owen's inability to get to the point, that she didn't want his baby, is more of a puzzle. or a manipulation to further the plot that they had preordained. You are right there with Cristina. But is Owen´s inability to understand she didn´t want his baby really a puzzle? I don´t see it as a puzzle. It would be nice to have a man´s perspective on this, but I think this inability, it could be his feeling that she didn´t want a part of him, refused a part of him, and a part of herself as well, and ultimately that baby meant for him a result of their love, so he really might have felt she refused what they feel for each other. I can´t explain it better. I think the writing has failed immensely, there are gaps which we have to fill with our own interpretations, on the one hand it offers topics for discussion, on the other hand, it can really misguide the perception of the whole storyline. Another thing, staying true to characters, last season the writers proved they value Cristina, she is who she is, we will be loyal to her, but if we honestly look at Owen. Is it true to his character that he cheated? Have the writers always seen him like that? He never acted on his feelings for Teddy while he was engaged to Beth or when Teddy dropped the bomb on him. This is where I feel it was done for drama only,or as you said manipulation of the character, or Rhimes was not really sure Sandra Oh was staying and she was planning a possible Teddy/Owen relationship in Season 9. tania - I think drwyatt was referring to Owen's inability to get " to the point" - meaning that he wasn't able to say in therapy what he felt, not that he didn't feel all the hurt and pain you are describing. The "manipulation" she is referring to in her comment, IMO, is the writers' decision to have Owen speak in general ("who doesn't want a baby?") rather than personal terms. She could understand that Cristina took refuge in intellectual, impersonal arguments; for Owen to do it was a way for the writers to prolong their issues and keep them from making progress, so that the writers could set up the cheating scenario. IMO, Shonda was determined to drive Cristina and Owen apart last season, but she had done such a good job convincing us of the depth of their connection that she had to go to extremes (abortion; cheating) to make their separation at all credible. The problem is that, in the course of doing that, she also damaged many viewers' belief that the connection ever existed at all or can ever be re-established. That's the problem she has to solve in Season 9 if she intends to bring them back together.
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Post by hopew on Aug 21, 2012 7:55:21 GMT -5
I´ve been thinking if realistically, you can actually step away from a fellowship programme in the middle of the process all of a sudden. In Cristina´s case, once she started it in Mayo, won´t she have to finish it there? Of course, in Shondaland what is real is a relative notion, but what reasons would she actually give for abandoning the programme? One more thing that makes me feel hesitant she comes back is that in the finale she said she was getting the hell away from SGMdeath and she was never looking back. Of course there were emotions in those words, but with Cristina what she says is what she does and she doesn´t come around. If she didn´t come around with the baby , would she ever reconsider coming around because of career? The two words that stick out for me from her words are death and never. She left her husband in SGMdeath. Is there anything that can make her look back? Rhimes said they will find a way back to each other. However, I think this does not imply Cristina coming back to Seattle. In 820 Alex said to her that Owen would be on the next plane if she said so. I am developing a kind of speculation that it might be Owen going to Mayo in the end. Just a guess... tania - I don't know whether in the real world someone can leave a fellowship at one hospital and go to another, although I suspect that it is in fact possible to do that. People's situations change in life and some of those changes could require a person to re-locate. A fellowship is both advanced education and a job; it is not a form of slavery. But in any event this is not real life - - this is a TV show. And it is a TV show about a group of doctors at a hospital named Seattle Grace Mercy West in the city of Seattle. Unless Shonda is planning on creating a Cristina/Owen spin-off in which they have their own TV show set at the Mayo Clinic (which would be fine with me, although I'd prefer it if Shonda wasn't the show runner), Cristina will return to Seattle. IF Kevin is leaving at the send of S9 when his contract is (we think) up and IF Sandra is leaving then as well (even though she just signed a contract through S10 that pays her $8,400,000 per year if she stays on the show) then maybe they will move to Minnesota at the end of S9, and permanently off Grey's Anatomy. If Sandra had renewed for one year, that would be possible, I suppose. But she renewed for 2 years, so if Grey's has a S10, I fully expect Sandra to be there and, if that is what Kevin wants, I hope he will be there too. IMO, it doesn't matter what Cristina said about wanting to leave Seattle in the S8 SP. She'll have done that by spending some time in Mayo at the beginning of S9. It is too expensive and too disruptive to the story to have a key character like Cristina located in a different place permanently. The show had to cut out 3 major characters to afford the salary raises it gave to Sandra, Ellen Pompeo and Patrick Dempsey. I assume (I hope) the other originals whose contracts were up got raises as well. There are budgets for TV shows, and even a successful one like Grey's can't continue indefinitely to be shooting two shows (in effect) at the same time. Cristina will be back. We can speculate about when and why she will return, but she WILL be back.
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Post by trinity on Aug 21, 2012 10:01:50 GMT -5
I´ve been thinking if realistically, you can actually step away from a fellowship programme in the middle of the process all of a sudden. In Cristina´s case, once she started it in Mayo, won´t she have to finish it there? Of course, in Shondaland what is real is a relative notion, but what reasons would she actually give for abandoning the programme? One more thing that makes me feel hesitant she comes back is that in the finale she said she was getting the hell away from SGMdeath and she was never looking back. Of course there were emotions in those words, but with Cristina what she says is what she does and she doesn´t come around. If she didn´t come around with the baby , would she ever reconsider coming around because of career? The two words that stick out for me from her words are death and never. She left her husband in SGMdeath. Is there anything that can make her look back? Rhimes said they will find a way back to each other. However, I think this does not imply Cristina coming back to Seattle. In 820 Alex said to her that Owen would be on the next plane if she said so. I am developing a kind of speculation that it might be Owen going to Mayo in the end. Just a guess... tania - I don't know whether in the real world someone can leave a fellowship at one hospital and go to another, although I suspect that it is in fact possible to do that. People's situations change in life and some of those changes could require a person to re-locate. A fellowship is both advanced education and a job; it is not a form of slavery. Asking for a transfer for a fellowship is not such an impossible and unrealistic thing. I am sure it is done in real life. If they re-hired Izzie after she stole a heart for a transplant and Mer suffered zero consequences after she messed up Derek's trial, really Cristina asking for a transfer for her fellowship isn't really such a unrealistic thing to do. Hope, ITA, there is only so much time they can keep Cristina on another hospital for all the reasons you already mentioned.
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Post by drwyatt on Aug 21, 2012 10:51:17 GMT -5
thanks hopew for clarifying, that was what I was trying to convey
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Aug 22, 2012 23:29:27 GMT -5
As far as the fellowship goes i rememer an 'article' a while back suggesting that teddy's exit leaves room for cristina to take over. What i am wondering is if owen will not be in a rush to hire someone for cardio and perhaps unconsciously he is leaving the position open for Cristina who I think will also feel guilty about not finishig the heart growing project that he started from the cell up, obviously a metaphor for her marriage too. So my guess is she will spend a few eps away this is why i think we will get a significant time jump.
Also i think physical separation will be a good thing as she will be away from meredith's co-dependency as trinity and hopew have mentioned but i think being physically away from meredith will make her realize that owen is her family and mer has her own family to worry about now. i am almost positive mer is going to give cris a major guilt trip about leaving and she will selfishly expect cristina to stay for her instead of going to mayo right away. That is something owen has never asked her to do as far as compromisong her career for him. even though he tried to cknvince her to have the baby he did so in a supportive manner telling her e would take time off, that it would not derail her career because he has always believed in her as his wife and as a surgeon but he sees both sides of her clearly unlike meredith who does notjing but judge her every move and owen's to te point that if i hear the "my person" mumbo jumbo again i might just throw out my tv
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Post by drwyatt on Aug 23, 2012 11:16:31 GMT -5
just saw a spoiler from mid-August that said cristina would be away from SGMW all season 9 I hope that it is old and false.
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Post by trinity on Aug 23, 2012 12:28:25 GMT -5
just saw a spoiler from mid-August that said cristina would be away from SGMW all season 9 I hope that it is old and false. They just started filming 9.04 this week. How could anyone know what happens till the end of the season... It's no more than just a speculation and I assume a very false one.
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Post by hopew on Aug 23, 2012 12:52:22 GMT -5
just saw a spoiler from mid-August that said cristina would be away from SGMW all season 9 I hope that it is old and false. They just started filming 9.04 this week. How could anyone know what happens till the end of the season... It's no more than just a speculation and I assume a very false one. It's from William Keck's twitter. He loves to try to stir up the fans - - he had a whole bunch of people convinced that Arizona would die in the SF last season, or the SP this season. Now that there is broad speculation (based on other sources, NOT any of Keck's reporting) that she will lose a leg, he's teasing that. He probably does have some information about the first few episodes - - he also said that he knows whether Mark dies or not, but that he is sworn to secrecy. But even the actors don't usually know about their full story arcs for the season this early. There is just no way that Shonda or anyone else at Grey's would have told him that Cristina will be away for the whole season. And the twitter exchange doesn't even make any sense! Someone asked "Is Yang coming back to SGMW during the Season 9th?" and Keck responded "SandraOh yes, Yang no." So does that mean that Sandra is going to be playing herself rather than Cristina in scenes that take place at SGMW? The question is unclear and the answer is just silly, IMO.
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Post by mesilla on Aug 23, 2012 16:45:30 GMT -5
I really doubt that they will drag it out all season. That would involve a whole new set of characters, a fairly complex set arrangement... I just don't see it happening this way. I am not sure what will bring her back...but I am sticking with my guess...lucky episode #7. 1/3 of the way through the season, or just about.
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Aug 23, 2012 17:48:11 GMT -5
I can't stand Keck he is such a crap stirrer. Its no surprise SO will be back, but Yang is at Mayo, why make it any more confusing for fans? sheesh. He gets in trouble with SR anyway so I really don't take anything he says with a sliver of the smallest grain of salt.
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Aug 24, 2012 19:27:39 GMT -5
Has it occurred to any of you that OC are already basically in a long distance relationship in terms of emotions they are miles upon miles apart already.
With her going to Mayo, it will just make it a physical long distance relationship. And I think it will affect Cristina in ways she never really fathomed and that will bring her back around to him eventually, in the long drawn out GA fashion and hopefully in a big way. But it will have to be her move, Owen has always made it clear where he stands since the whole Teddy debacle at least.
So now its time for her to step up so both of them can take charge of what they hold dear.
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Post by hopew on Aug 25, 2012 8:03:31 GMT -5
I find it quite strange that there is nothing on Owen´s PTSD anymore, I mean it seems like it has miraculously disappeared which seems unrealistic. I personally wouldn´t like to see it play out this way again, to bond over Cristina´s PTSD again. It must be shown that both of them want the marriage, to be together, not just because they want to feel safe and look after each other when one is suffering from PTSD, which I believe was the main reason Cristina married Owen, to feel safe. Writers have to portray something more than just them bonding over PTSD again, it is indeed what brought them together in the first place and it was really exceptionally beautiful the whole storyline, even in the AU episode, but this time I would really like to see a husband and a wife both fighting for their marriage. Cristina saying there is a reason they are together, there is a reason they are married can´t be just because of PTSD. Sometimes I think this is what Rhimes mainly sees for this couple, the PTSD storyline, the reason they are together. JMHO ITA with you, Tania, about both Owen's PTSD's sudden apparent "disappearance" and about the reasons that Cristina and Owen have to come back together for the reunion to have meaning for me. Like you, I want to see them reunited for positive reasons, because they have really chosen each other. I want to their reunion to come from strength, not weakness.
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Post by trinity on Aug 26, 2012 7:36:11 GMT -5
I find it quite strange that there is nothing on Owen´s PTSD anymore, I mean it seems like it has miraculously disappeared which seems unrealistic. I personally wouldn´t like to see it play out this way again, to bond over Cristina´s PTSD again. It must be shown that both of them want the marriage, to be together, not just because they want to feel safe and look after each other when one is suffering from PTSD, which I believe was the main reason Cristina married Owen, to feel safe. Writers have to portray something more than just them bonding over PTSD again, it is indeed what brought them together in the first place and it was really exceptionally beautiful the whole storyline, even in the AU episode, but this time I would really like to see a husband and a wife both fighting for their marriage. Cristina saying there is a reason they are together, there is a reason they are married can´t be just because of PTSD. Sometimes I think this is what Rhimes mainly sees for this couple, the PTSD storyline, the reason they are together. JMHO ITA with you, Tania, about both Owen's PTSD's sudden apparent "disappearance" and about the reasons that Cristina and Owen have to come back together for the reunion to have meaning for me. Like you, I want to see them reunited for positive reasons, because they have really chosen each other. I want to their reunion to come from strength, not weakness. Given the way Shonda Rhimes has handled stories lately - especially the C/O ones - I don't think I even want her to handle a comeback of Owen's PTSD, though I know that would be a realistic thing to do. But what is realistic in what Shonda does in the last couple of seasons?? But I do not believe Cristina married Owen just because she wanted to feel safe. If it was just because of that, then she would have left him after she overcame her PTSD. But she didn't do that, she chose to stay in this marriage. So the argument that she only married Owen for that, she wasn't herself and she just wanted to feel safe does really hold for me. She still has to learn how to be in this marriage but that is another matter. And I also believe that the bond they have is still there, that was never lost, it only got buried in their problems. They have to learn to find it once again, but their bond, that deep connection that brought them together will always be there, no matter what happens with them, it was never lost and I don't think it will ever be lost. That's what Kevin said in many of his interviews. The bond is still there, they just have to rediscover it and that takes hard work. It's not about being friends first, it's about truly being equals in this relationship. Cristina would have to learn how to compromise, to admit her own mistakes and how those affected her marriage and Owen would have to learn to say out loud how he feels. It takes a lot work. But that's what I would want to see. Not having some sort of epiphany because of some tragic event or Cristina leaning on Owen because of her PTSD. ITA, I need more than that so that Cristina and Owen coming together would be credible for me. Some physical distance might help with that. Keeping Cristina on another hospital for longer time would be too disrumptive for the storyline, the cost of keeping two complex sets for a long time would be high, even for a show like GA. There's only so much time they can do that. It might work for a bunch of episodes, but not for a whole season.
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Post by trinity on Aug 26, 2012 7:39:42 GMT -5
And the twitter exchange doesn't even make any sense! Someone asked "Is Yang coming back to SGMW during the Season 9th?" and Keck responded "SandraOh yes, Yang no." So does that mean that Sandra is going to be playing herself rather than Cristina in scenes that take place at SGMW? The question is unclear and the answer is just silly, IMO. I personally understood his response in the way that Sandra Oh comes to the set of SGMW hospital just to visit her colleagues/cast and crew/ and/or to look at how the others film their scenes. That´s my interpretation. His response is strange, because we don´t really know how much info he had been given by SR. The question was about Cristina Yang's character not the actress Sandra Oh. Keck's response is really silly. He likes to tease the fans and apparently he is doing a good job with it....
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Post by justine on Aug 26, 2012 8:16:29 GMT -5
Question to CO shippers: how many episodes can we handle witn no CO scene ? Because I have the feeling that's what we are going to have for at least half of the season.
Even though for the cost or complexity in handling 2 or 3 differents hospital staffs ( we know Alex will stay, what about Avery ? ), Shonda can dragg it as long as it works financially and if the audience keeps on with it.
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