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Post by kaz on Jan 10, 2013 17:48:41 GMT -5
GREY'S ANATOMY: Things We Said Today
BAILEY'S WEDDING DAY CONTINUES TO BE IN JEOPARDY, ON ABC'S "GREY'S ANATOMY"
Guest Starring Emmy Award Winner Loretta Devine
"Things We Said Today" - Bailey puts her wedding day on hold and continues her efforts to save Adele's life, Cristina and Owen remain undecided about their pending divorce, while Arizona and Callie try to get their spark back. Meanwhile, the hospital becomes inundated with a group of bikers after a horrible accident, on "Grey's Anatomy," THURSDAY, JANUARY 10 (9:00-10:02 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.
"Grey's Anatomy" stars Ellen Pompeo as Meredith Grey, Patrick Dempsey as Derek Shepherd, Sandra Oh as Cristina Yang, Justin Chambers as Alex Karev, Chandra Wilson as Miranda Bailey, James Pickens, Jr. as Richard Webber, Sara Ramirez as Callie Torres, Kevin McKidd as Owen Hunt, Jessica Capshaw as Arizona Robbins, Jesse Williams as Jackson Avery and Sarah Drew as April Kepner.
Guest starring Loretta Devine as Adele, Jason George as Ben, Dale Dickey as Emily "Gasoline" Bennett, Frankie Faison as Mr. Bailey, Gauis Charles as Intern Shane, Camilla Luddington as Intern Josephine, Tina Majorino as Intern Heather, Jerrika Hinton as Intern Stephanie, Tessa Ferrer as Intern Leah, Jaye Razor as Rage, Wren T. Brown as Michael and Richard Kahan as Stuart.
"Things We Said Today" was written by Austin Guzman and directed by Ron Underwood. --------------------------------------
This thread is for your reviews, thoughts, complaints and comments.
Please refrain from posting until after the episode has aired.
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Post by browncoatwhit on Jan 10, 2013 22:15:27 GMT -5
Oh man, my prediction for the ep (back on the spec thread) was completely wrong! Must rewatch when the ep airs regular-like (should I be embarrassed for watching a live feed from the East Coast, when I live on the West Coast?) Loved the starting sexy-time for C/O, but they had me weeping through the last minutes. Kevin and Sandra are just so, so, SO amazing! Loved the ceremony, loved the couple jumping the broom, hated Karev & Jo. Did anyone else groan "Ohmigod NO!!!! Bailey's dad is Commissioner Burrell!" or wait for Gasoline to turn into a werewolf? Too many HBO mash-up possibilities in this ep for one night...
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Post by oystersandco on Jan 11, 2013 8:14:42 GMT -5
I must be stupid, I understand nothing of the episode. So CO are now divorced and everything is solved? Does that mean they will not expect from each other as much as they do when they were married and so be happy?
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Post by kaz on Jan 11, 2013 8:28:52 GMT -5
Okay, I was wrong about where the sneak peek scene would come in also. But it was in the perfect place, leaving us with a sense of hope. There were tears (and Kevin and Sandra were so incredible) but glimmers of happiness too - or am I crazy?
Still don't entirely follow how the institution of marriage itself was the problem but willing to suspend my disbelief so as to fully enjoy this new beginning.
Aside from the last scene and those first 2 (phew) I also really loved seeing O and C's work-related interactions. They seemed to just have an ease around each other that we haven't witnessed in a very long time.
So excited for the rest of the season.
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Post by kaz on Jan 11, 2013 8:53:33 GMT -5
Okay a couple of other things I liked, just quickly.
First, that Cristina was the one to try and initiate conversation - asking 'what does this mean?' after that initial scene.
Second, the tangible shift in sentiment and change in atmosphere as soon as those divorce papers had been signed. It was subtle but notable, like a cage had physically been lifted and they were free. How good are Kevin and Sandra?! Seriously in awe this week even more so than ever.
Things I didn't like - most of the interactions with the interns, other than the surgical moments. So sick of intern sex stories. Adele dying offscreen. Pickens gives us such great emotional scenes, I felt a little robbed that we didn't get to witness it. And the wedding. Cheese fest.
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Post by drwyatt on Jan 11, 2013 12:02:47 GMT -5
OK so let's talk about the box. I do wish he hadn't said we never should have gotten married, but rather we shouldn't have gotten married THEN, or it was the wrong time or... It was a clumsy poorly executed metaphor, but I ( and someone I don't know on twitter) both saw parallels to Cristina being cut out of her wedding dress, and crying "I'm free...d**n IT! d**n IT!" So the biker tells Owen that "once you step out of the box, out of your JOB (emphasis mine) and your marriage, you" feel free. So we have an anvil for Owen as chief, which constrained him in ways he didn't anticipate. And we have the box of his own expectations of what marriage with a capital M means. Do they need to get divorced to figure this out? Of course not. But dealing only with what we are given, by signing off on the divorce, they are essentially writing a new contract (again stealing from someone on twitter), to try to figure things out on new terms, without the burden of all of the expectations that they found living in the box. Their scenes were so sweet. And HOT. So relieved to be back in less angsty territory. And hallelujah! Now KMK even looks better! Man, lighting and makeup have been used to painfully sad effect for almost an entire season. He looks younger and more relaxed. TV magic is amazing. I do miss the season 5 pecs and shoulders though Arizona and Callie's scenes were very moving. And how sweet to see Mer and Webber coforting each other. Oh, and it looks like Derek is a douche.
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Post by trinity on Jan 11, 2013 14:18:15 GMT -5
I may be way off here with my interpretation but this is how I saw the scene:
IMO, it's not Owen who is trapped in a box but Cristina. The anvil is supposed to be for Cristina. Right when Owen talks to the biker he is looking at Cristina. She has been put in a box and Owen has realized that the "classic marriage" does not work for them and it will kill their relationship. He is freeing her and them now so they can have a fresh start.
It's a cop out for SR and the writers to solve the baby issue. This is Owen giving up on wanting to have a "family" because it will kill their relationship. I don't think Owen believes the marriage was a mistake, at all. But he has realized that this marriage has put Cristina and their relationship in a box. And if they stay trapped there, it (the relationship) will die. He doesn't want that because he loves Cristina way too much. What made him more determined than ever was Cristina saying she wanted them to try again.
It's what many of us have speculated here. Just that it was told in twisted, unnecessary, stupid way. I got the point of it, but I don't like it. This is the same writer who wrote the therapy session episode last season so I couldn't expect more from him.
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Post by drwyatt on Jan 11, 2013 15:56:48 GMT -5
I hear you Trinity, and it's an equally valid way to view it. Except, that we have an entire half of a season ( and please pretty please one more) and if the issue is put to bed that quickly, where does the SL go? Cristina has her dream job. Now that she has achieved it, is doing it and doing it well, maybe motherhood is not so threatening anymore?
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Post by trinity on Jan 11, 2013 16:38:19 GMT -5
I hear you Trinity, and it's an equally valid way to view it. Except, that we have an entire half of a season ( and please pretty please one more) and if the issue is put to bed that quickly, where does the SL go? Cristina has her dream job. Now that she has achieved it, is doing it and doing it well, maybe motherhood is not so threatening anymore? While Cristina has her dream job and her career is up raising, Owen's is almost in pieces because of the law suit... They might struggle with that the next part of the season.
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Post by kaz on Jan 11, 2013 16:54:26 GMT -5
I may be way off here with my interpretation but this is how I saw the scene: IMO, it's not Owen who is trapped in a box but Cristina. The anvil is supposed to be for Cristina. Right when Owen talks to the biker he is looking at Cristina. She has been put in a box and Owen has realized that the "classic marriage" does not work for them and it will kill their relationship. He is freeing her and them now so they can have a fresh start. It's a cop out for SR and the writers to solve the baby issue. This is Owen giving up on wanting to have a "family" because it will kill their relationship. I don't think Owen believes the marriage was a mistake, at all. But he has realized that this marriage has put Cristina and their relationship in a box. And if they stay trapped there, it (the relationship) will die. He doesn't want that because he loves Cristina way too much. What made him more determined than ever was Cristina saying she wanted them to try again. It's what many of us have speculated here. Just that it was told in twisted, unnecessary, stupid way. I got the point of it, but I don't like it. This is the same writer who wrote the therapy session episode last season so I couldn't expect more from him. You might be right, Trinity, but I didn't take it quite as far when I watched the episode. My take was just that, in general terms, the institution and idea of a traditional marriage was stifling and boxing them in. What the full implications of the removal of that box are and precisely what the relationship will now entail (ie childless union etc) I think remain to be seen. But then maybe it is wishful thinking on my part that will get more detailed exploration of their relationship and issues and perhaps this is just supposed to be the miracle fix.
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Post by hopew on Jan 11, 2013 17:37:25 GMT -5
I wasn't able to watch the episode until this afternoon, although I had seen just the C/O scenes on the web earlier in the day. I wanted to wait to comment until I'd seen them in context, and I'm glad I did. This is also a time when my reactions were VERY much informed by the comments I read here.
Kevin and Sandra are wonderful; they do an incredible job communicating the intensity of the connection between Owen and Cristina. The early scenes between them, of the reunion sex, were great. Someone elsewhere said that no one does "tender and hot" better than they do (I think it may have been in the buddytv recap, which was great as usual). I loved the ease of their interactions with each other when they were dealing with the medical issues and the biker stuff - it's been much too long since we've been shown what a good team Cristina and Owen can be when they are in sync.
But of course, having seen the sneak peek with the divorce papers, I watched everything waiting for the next shoe to drop. When it did, it hurt, not just because seeing them both cry was sad (which it was), but because IMO the writing really let the actors and the characters down.
At first, I was just annoyed that Owen said they should never have gotten married in the first place, and that they had put themselves in a "box." I was particularly resentful of how that characterization of C/O's marriage contrasted with the way the other married couples (Mer/Der, Calzona and now Bailey/Ben) were portrayed. But trinity's explanation helped me with that. It is true that Owen looks directly at Cristina when he is talking to the biker. Owen's speech about breaking out of the "box" of marriage made no sense as an expression of his feelings, because it was so inconsistent with his past conduct. He wanted to marry her and make a home with her; he wanted to be a husband to her and kept believing she could be a wife to him. He kept wearing that wedding ring for months after she had kicked him out of the fire house; after she had left for Minnesota. This was not a man feeling trapped. But if in that moment he realized that Cristina felt trapped in the marriage, so that the divorce papers were a way to set her free from constraints that she had been feeling, his speech is not OOC (which is what I thought when I first heard it).
To be clear, I don't like this "resolution" because I don't really see how their getting divorced really solves their problems. Their real problem is that they don't communicate with each other; they don't discuss with each other decisions and actions that have an impact on both of them. Now they are getting a divorce, without really discussing it first. How does that change anything? IF they had a real conversation, IF they at least said "I love you" to each other (instead, the music in the background kept repeating those words - did you notice?), IF there was any clear statement that Owen was doing this for Cristina, and/or that Cristina was agreeing to it for him, it would have felt a lot more like real change. That's what I mean by the writing letting them down. If this is the beginning of real change, they should have made this decision together after hearing each other out and discussing what is best for each and for both of them.
But clearly the writers want us to see this as a "new beginning" for them. The Hollywood Reporter article interviewing Kevin and Sandra about the divorce is feeling more and more like damage control to me - - it was a way of telling the fans that divorce isn't the end to their relationship, because most of the time divorce really IS the end of a relationship! But if the writers have to rely on actor interviews to explain the story they are telling, instead of knowing that the writing will do that on its own, there is a pretty big problem with the writing IMO.
Kevin and Sandra are so great together that they can make us believe almost anything, particularly something that we want to believe - - like this being a fresh start for them, a beginning not an end to their relationship. So I'll just enjoy that, and try not to feel too frustrated because the writing IMO let them down.
I'm not sure where the story goes from here. If this is the beginning of an attempt to rebuild their relationship, I hope we finally get to see them actually talk to each other. Maybe we'll see that in future episodes written (I hope) by better writers than the one who wrote 9.10. I'm not ready to agree with trinity that the divorce and "breaking out of the box" of marriage is Shonda's way to show Owen giving up on having kids, although I certainly think that is possible. I guess we'll find out eventually.
The rest of the episode - except for Adele's death and Richard's reaction - didn't do much for me. I haven't developed any interest in the new interns. I affirmatively don't like the way the relationship between Alex and Jo is being written, and that is undercutting my affection for Alex, who was always one of my favorite characters. I didn't enjoy the Bailey's wedding subplot much. I'll keep the episode on my DVR, for now, for the C/O scenes but I don't expect to watch the entire episode again.
From the promo it seems Kevin and Sandra have at least one scene together next week. That, at least, is something to look forward to.
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Post by kaz on Jan 11, 2013 18:08:05 GMT -5
Hopew, I agree 100% with everything you have said. I don't entirely follow why this should be a fresh start and a fix to the problems and think that is lazy writing but Sandra and Kevin sold it to me completely that this is a new beginning and there is hope for the future. And that is all I am really taking away from this episode.
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Post by raachel2008 on Jan 11, 2013 21:01:26 GMT -5
But there is a flaw in this thinking, not yours, of course but the writers'. A a really commited relationship is not thaat different than a marriage. People in any sort of common-law marriages, gay people who are not allowed to a legal marriage, people who are long life partners, etc, they face the same problems legally married people face: should we buy a house? Your family or mine at Christmas? Can't we really skip this stupid office party? Should we have kids? Who is going to tell the neighbours that their party is really loud? Chicken or fish for dinner? Save for retirement or travel? Chicken or pasta for dinner?
Assuming Cristina and Owen are in a relationship in the next episodes - and I think they are -, assuming they are still commited to each other even though they are not a "married couple" - and I think they are -, nothing really changed UNLESS, as Trinity said, Owen really gave up on having kids. And if he did, I feel cheated that we didn't get to see it, because, LORD, can those two TALK?
As for the rest of the episode, I can say that I can't stand Jo or Jo and Alex. JPJ nailed his scenes, and I for once enjoyed Meredith and Webber. I have to wonder if Adele's death and whatever guilty he may or may not feel over her and his affair with Catherine will push him towards a relapse.
So niiiiiice to have an entire episode without any Meredith/Cristina scene.
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Post by hopew on Jan 11, 2013 21:47:23 GMT -5
But there is a flaw in this thinking, not yours, of course but the writers'. A a really commited relationship is not thaat different than a marriage. People in any sort of common-law marriages, gay people who are not allowed to a legal marriage, people who are long life partners, etc, they face the same problems legally married people face: should we buy a house? Your family or mine at Christmas? Can't we really skip this stupid office party? Should we have kids? Who is going to tell the neighbours that their party is really loud? Chicken or fish for dinner? Save for retirement or travel? Chicken or pasta for dinner? Assuming Cristina and Owen are in a relationship in the next episodes - and I think they are -, assuming they are still commited to each other even though they are not a "married couple" - and I think they are -, nothing really changed UNLESS, as Trinity said, Owen really gave up on having kids. And if he did, I feel cheated that we didn't get to see it, because, LORD, can those two TALK? ITA, completely. That's why I think the writers' whole approach to their "fresh start" doesn't work. All C/O have done is complicate their income tax filings (two returns instead of one) and probably committed insurance fraud in relation to the law suit. But all the issues you've correctly pointed out - - from whose parents to spend the holidays with to the inevitable "do we have kids" question - - are still floating out there. Even if the subtext was Owen giving up on having kids (and, as I said, I'm not convinced of that yet), all those other issues remain. And actually the kid issue could come up again as well - - I've heard people do that sometimes without being legally married! But if Owen believed that part of their problem was that Cristina found the idea of being in a legal marriage and being someone's wife to be stifling, and that was his reason for saying what he did, it at least provides some minimal justification for his speech about their being in a "box." I know I'm reaching here, but . . .
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Post by justine on Jan 12, 2013 3:02:30 GMT -5
Dear writers, in a marriage or in a long life partner relationship or in a commited relationship, are the values or the fundamentals rules so different ?
If so, Cristina's best match is a "sex friend". She has to be alone, live and died alone, like dear Dr Thomas.
Cristina needs to learn to commit in a relationship and both Owen and Cristina should start to learn to communicate.
Marriage is not harmful when set up in sharing fundamentals beliefs and values. CO love each other but...they have to talk.
Trinity is right, Cristina's career is rising up whereas Owen's seems to be striped into pieces because of the lawsuit. She is getting what she has always wanting since season 1 episode 1.
Will she see it ? Will she be able to see what Owen is doing for her and her friends ? Why do I have the feeling that Owen is going to be the sacrifice one again ? have we ever seen Cristina giving up anything she dearly wants for the sake of Owen ?
I am stunned to watch for 3 and half seasons that the character of Owen is still stuck in the same place of blaming himself for all it concerns his failed relationship/marriage with Cristina and From Cristina side, the lack of acknowledging that she played a very active part in tearing their marriage into pieces.
There is a lack of honesty in Cristina towards herself and towards Owen. She lets him take all the blame for all their issues and broken marriage. That's what CO fans have problem with. Cristina let Owen down somewhere in the road. If you love someone, you share this someone's burden and pain, and you attend to his or her needs. That's the big paradox between Owen and Cristina. One will give everything for the other and one will never give a d**n crap for anyone excepted her bestie aka Meredith Grey.
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Post by drwyatt on Jan 12, 2013 15:09:32 GMT -5
Justine, I hear where you are coming from, but I wonder if you can be open to the possiblity that Cristina's recent experiences, through the plane crash and her friendship with Dr. Thomas might make her behave differently in the coming episodes? I believe that is where the SL is moving over the remainder of the season. She is in a professionally solid position, with a largely unseen department head who has declared trust in her judgement and skills. She has been shown to be a teacher that commands the respect of the new crop of interns. So what is left to be addressed is her relationships with Owen and with Meredith. Already I see a dialing back of the Mer and Cristina relationship; they are keeping more to themselves and processing things separately. This season began with the question who is Cristina's person: Mer, HERSELF, or Owen? She tried to be her own person and was miserable. She let Meredith back in, in a far more modified way than she has in the past, and she has returned to Owen, asking to try again, knowing full well that he wants to have children. She has repeatedly been interacting with him in ways that ask him what HE wants, whether it was the lousy attempt of talking about selling the firehouse, to the question of "why did you take me back on here?", to even asking him to affirm that HE wanted the divorce. "what should we do?" "is that what you want?" "I wanted to ask you if we could try again" and finally "what does this mean?" Absolutely many people need to see it to believe it, but I'm pretty sure we will see more direct evidence that she is on his side and has in fact changed quite a bit.
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Post by mcscotty on Jan 14, 2013 1:23:42 GMT -5
Confession -- I watch this show just to see Owen Hunt. Everything else is fluff and filler. OK, maybe I'm exaggerating -- but only a little. I did enjoy the naughty bonding between HoboJo and Karev. Remember how she told Karev that a man's tears freaks people out? Well, Owen wiping away that tear undid me. I usually hate shows that make me cry, but lately every ep of GA makes me laugh and then leaves me in tears. I LOVE the badass combustible combination of Owen & Christina -- love them fighting, love them loving. Wow! Keep it coming!
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duchovlet
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Post by duchovlet on Jan 17, 2013 20:03:12 GMT -5
I liked the ep and I like Austin Guzman, the writer, quite a bit. I always find his stories multi-layered, full of subtlety, and compelling to watch. I'll write more when I have a chance.
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