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Post by Leanne on Feb 11, 2009 1:20:40 GMT -5
Woohoo I love this time of the week this thread is now open this thread is currently locked until airing on this episodereminder to use the spoiler button reminder that this is the crossover episode (Greys and Private Practice) Enjoy comment below
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Post by Leanne on Feb 12, 2009 16:21:56 GMT -5
"Before and After" - Addison, Naomi and Sam rush the ailing Archer to Seattle Grace and reunite with old friends Derek and Mark to help save his life; meanwhile, Izzie employs her fellow doctors in a medical game designed to help teach the interns, and Owen runs into a significant someone from his past, on "Grey's Anatomy," THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 12 (9:00-10:02 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network
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ruralstar
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Post by ruralstar on Feb 12, 2009 22:24:40 GMT -5
*sigh*
Well what we got of O/C was extremely well done. Unfortunately, you could have put the Owen and O/C scenes in a thimble and had room to spare. Backing up.... FTR, I know nothing about Private Practice and have no intention of watching it. So all of the Archer/Addison and Crew reunion scenes were wasted on me. And there was waaayyyy too much of that stuff for anyone who is only interested in the GA storylines. It was nice to see the Callie/Addision conversation in the chapel, though I thought how the scene began was ridiculous. BTW, did the Cheif have a labotomy? He keeps showing up in the dumbest places and saying the dumbest things... Anyway, a little character moment for Callie. Also enjoyed the bit where Addision nearly spilled the beans about Mark's relationship with 'the 12 yo' Lexie. Eric Dane has nice comic timing. Bailey and Samuel have a nice little spark but isn't she married? Bailey doesn't strike as the sleeping around type and the last we heard she was going to marriage counseling. Yeah, whatever. Izzy was comic relief this evening and there was far too much of her as well. The game was ridiculous and the worst scene of the night had to be the slo mo race for the finish line. Why was the Cheif there? Doesn't he have some paperwork to fill out or something? Oh and apparently Alex needs a patient to almost have a stroke in front of him before he realizes how screwed up his girlfriend is. *groans* Sadie is gone thank the stars. Not a very graceful exit. Poor George has little to say except pointing out the obvious. I think we all knew Saide should be whoring her way around Europe and not trying to treat anything more serious than a bug bite. Moving on... So the pregnant patient is quite a charmer and has a mind of her own. I like this couple. They make sense. Methinks Derek should have put her off though because he's about to be tested. So I guess that's everyone except Owen and Cristina. First of all, why on earth would Owen have told her about Beth? It's not like she's beating any records telling him about Burke. They've shared some incredibly intimate moments but the reality is that they haven't even had a proper date yet. Cris was unfair. Worse that she didn't even give Owen the time of day until he demanded it. She didn't want to hear the truth. She was too busy pulling back and lumping Owen in with Burke and every other man. I suppose it makes sense but it was damned unfair. Then we have little Miss Peaches and Cream herself. At least she has the sense to realize that Owen is not the man she knew Before. Even that is surprising from a woman who won't kill a spider by herself. Second graders love bugs so her classroom must be quite a sterile place. Never mind that if she's that close to daddy how the heck could she not know that he's dying of cancer? Talk about keeping things under your hat. I had high hopes for this episode but the only thing that really delivered in regards to O/C was Kevin's performance. We learned that Owen appears to be an Ass but he isn't. We don't know why we should think otherwise though. Who breaks up via email? We learned that his mother lives in Seattle and that he can't bear to see her. We learned that he feels like a ghost and that Cristina has no idea what to do in the face of his distress. It was far more than I expected, but we were left hanging in the worst way possible just to make room for a singing scene with Addision, Derek and Co? Yeah, whatever. I give credit where its due. Sandra and Kevin were excellent, as usual.
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Post by kaz on Feb 13, 2009 5:56:34 GMT -5
Owen, I see you. I only wish that it was for longer periods of time each week. Usually, I will spend a little time commenting on the non-Owen-related parts of each episode. This week, I don't even care.
I don't mind the regulars sharing screen time with guest stars playing patients and/or family members. In fact, I often enjoy it. It brings something fresh and new to each episode, while focussing on aspects of the core characters.
But when they just truck over half the cast of another tv show that I don't watch and I don't care about and that other cast takes up equal if not greater amounts of screen time than the regular cast and doesn't really add anything to the fabric of the show that I am actually watching, my interest starts to wane.
So this week, as never before, I am going to skip all the other crap and pretty much get straight onto the Owen and Cristina of it all.
I want to begin by noting that this week was yet more proof positive that the promo monkeys over at ABC are messing with our minds. The promo was so very clearly cut in a way to make more out of the whole Beth affair than there actually was. Firstly, they obviously cut out the word "ex" in the conversation that Cristina has with Meredith. Secondly, it looks to me as though they played part of that hug scene in reverse in the promo. In the scene itself, Owen's face is close to Beth's head at the start because of the way that Beth embraces Owen. He looks awkward and turns his face away from her, before removing her arms. In the PROMO, however, it really looks to me as though it's the opposite - ie, he's facing away and then turns his head towards her as though sniffing her hair.
Next, I need to raise my little bug-bear - continuity! It annoyed me to no end that Beth was wearing the same outfit in her first scene this week and she was wearing last week but this week it appeared that she was there during the day (as her dad sent her off to work) whereas last week, if I'm not mistaken, she was arriving in the afternoon or the evening. And after she arrived, we know that Owen and Cristina snuck off for a sleep in an on-call room. It seemed like her dad was getting his first consult this week so what happened? Did she arrive, have a sleep, wake up the next day and then trot off to work in the same clothes? Or did Shonda just not think this one through? I'm thinking the latter.
But now onto things of substance. I was really glad that they changed up the ex-fiancee scenes from what I'd read in the sides although they still had Owen breaking it off in an email but gave us no further explanation as to when or precisely why. I do wonder whether this will be covered off in a future episode or if we are simply supposed to be happy with the reasoning that he broke it off because he wasn't the "before" guy anymore and he didn't want to cause her anymore pain.
There has been some discussion on other boards about who the "real" Owen is (the before or after guy) and whether when Owen is happy and healed and whole he will want to go back to Beth and his life before.
For me, Meredith's voice over at the start says it all in that regard:
"Every patient's story starts the same way. It starts with them being fine. It starts in the "before". They cling to this moment, this memory of being fine, this "before"...as though talking about it may somehow bring it back. But what they don't realise is that the fact that they're talking about it to us, their doctors, means there's no going back. By the time they see us they're already in the "after"."
In this circumstance, Beth and Owen's mother are the ones holding onto the before. Owen facilitates this by lying to them in order to spare them the burden and the pain of knowing that the "before" Owen is really gone, never to return again. I imagine it's because he knows what it feels like to mourn the loss of his former-self and former-life.
With time (and possibly treatment) he might rebuild a life but it's never going to be the life he had before and he's never going to be that person again.
So I don't think it's a question of who the real Owen is. The "real" Owen before was the guy who saved Beth from spiders. The real Owen now is the guy who breaks down in the shower and has panic attacks and, as viewers, he tells us as much when he says to Cristina "this is me" (just as Meredith tells Sadie that she's still her, even though she doesn't want to do the same things she did when she was 25).
This surely has to be the episode that Kevin was talking about in the Q&A when he said that Owen's reasoning is a bit messed up at times. It surely is, although part of me sees why he did what he did.
I like that, ultimately, he listens to Cristina and he learns from her. He takes on board what she says about Beth deserving more than to find out about her dad before it's too late and when Beth says those very words ("I deserve more than that") he finally tells her the truth. I think in a way, that's his opportunity to right his own wrongs and to explain to her why he did what he did.
And now onto THAT scene. It was perfect in every way. I feel like I say that every week about anything that Sandra and Kevin do but they are really just that good. How anyone can manage to convey such emotion with just a whisper is beyond me. Better still, is how Sandra mirrors the emotion with just a single tear-filled look. This entire scene just floored me.
It was just so moving. I know Owen and Cristina's story is unique because he's so damaged and she's got her walls but in a way, I think it's also a very basic story about human need. We're all human and flawed and we all want to be able to find that someone who we can stand before and, say to them "this is me" and have them really see and accept us.
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ruralstar
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Post by ruralstar on Feb 13, 2009 7:09:19 GMT -5
Agreed about the continuity. It might be explained this way
Beth arrived the previous evening. She probably slept at the hospital. She did have a bag with her that could have contained clothes. Also, it might have been too late in the evening for a proper consult so Michael got his first meeting the following morning. Cristina and Owen were on call so they could have slept, gotten up and gone back to work. Could being the operative word.
What you said about Owen is all true IMO. I still thinks he's going to have to explain that email because the prospect of someone breaking off with her with nary a word is terrifying to Cristina since she's already been there. She can't just let it lie.
"See me" was a bit of a theme for O'C from the start. So far Owen is the only one who has tried to be honest. I would guess this is the material Kevin referred too. Cristina needs to be honest as well. It's not all on him.
That confession scene killed me.
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ruralstar
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Post by ruralstar on Feb 13, 2009 8:00:55 GMT -5
Another plot point that leads to a bit of hoped for speculation.
Owen hasn't seen his mother since his return tot he States. Cristina might be the one to finally get him to take the step. Maybe she would go with him. I don't see anything like this happening until she starts to get honest and makes him understand all of the reasons why his behavior scares her, not just the obvious ones.
Upon rewatching the confession scene this morning I am struck by one important thing. If not for the passion of Kevin and Sandra's performances the links between this episode and the last one would be virtually non-existent. Dialogue and wardobe make the topical links but if Owen didn't look so shaken in every scene and so desperately in need of Cris' support in the on-call room, the panic attack would have looked way over the top in retrospect.
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Post by kaz on Feb 13, 2009 8:02:28 GMT -5
From the writer's blog:
Which brings me to Owen and Cristina. Owen clearly has a lot of damage. He’s seen a lot and been changed by all the trauma he’s lived through. He is not the same man he was before. And Beth (his ex fiancée) wants to believe he can be that man. She wants to believe that if he comes home they can go back to the way they were. As for Cristina, even though she believes that Owen is dark and damaged, she’s not looking away. And the fact that she sees him, really sees him, is like a lifeline to him.
We have spoken to several war veterans about what it’s like to come back. It’s really important to us that we get this right, that we don’t shy away from the difficulty people have who come back from war. And part of that difficulty is that people who knew them still think of them as the person they were before they left even though fundamentally they may have changed. And this episode is where Owen’s past comes back to smack him in the face and really make him see how much he’s changed.
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ruralstar
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Post by ruralstar on Feb 13, 2009 8:08:49 GMT -5
Sounds like the writer gets what the editors and Shondra do not. There was/is always a level of authenticity to what Kevin and Sandra do in their scenes together. Owen is an unfolding disaster. The bit about not seeing his mother makes that more apparent than even his failed engagement to Beth. Families are primal. The bond between a mother and a child nearly impossible to break no matter the circumstances. The fact that Owen is scared enough and scarred enough to think that his mother should not see him in such a changed state speaks volumes.
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Post by Leanne on Feb 13, 2009 8:56:02 GMT -5
I enjoyed this episode there's actually quite a bit of Kevin in this episode more than normal although its dispersed through the episode ~ lets hope his clips keep getting longer You just cant hate this guy even when he breaks off with his ex via email you just know where its coming from and one wonders what kind of guy he was to have had such a depend female as a girlfriend ....Cristina is much more his equal emotionally. I hadnt watched Addison before and quite enjoyed her. Of course the funniest scene was Baily and her Kids remark worms well that was just gross Ive downloaded the Private Practice episode as well but haven't gotten around to watching it yet...just out of curiosity
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Post by yousfigo on Feb 13, 2009 9:15:33 GMT -5
The last thing he said yesterday was '' See me'' but i didnt understand what he said just before that.
Anyone who can help?
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Post by Leanne on Feb 13, 2009 10:22:01 GMT -5
it went something like this...
The only time I don't feel like a ghost is when you look at me, because you see me, you see me, this is me........
hope that helps yousfigo
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Post by Leanne on Feb 13, 2009 10:25:25 GMT -5
Ratings Despite the absence of William Petersen, CBS’ veteran CSI remains the show to beat in the overnights at 9 p.m., with a 10.7/16. Grey’s Anatomy on ABC, which will likely win the hour among adults 18-49, was second with a 9.3/14 (and once again featured a crossover episode with lead-out spin-off Private Practice). ABC’s Private Practice benefited by another crossover from Grey’s Anatomy, with a dominant 8.8/15 at 10 p.m. Retention out of the second half of Grey’s Anatomy (9.4/14 at 9:30 p.m.) was rock solid at 94 percent. www.mediaweek.com/mw/content_display/community/programming-insider/newsletters/e3i2caa28b320f868d5eefb71f09f473b14
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Feb 13, 2009 11:01:03 GMT -5
I was so frustrated I couldn't get online until today because my 'net was down. But there are a few things I'd like to mention about the Cris/Owen things. First off, I feel we were robbed of a great morning after scene with Owen and Cristina, anyone agree? I agree with everyone that this is defiantely an episode where Owen's past catches up with him in a bad way. He's in the middle of moving on in his life in a positive direction, new job, new relationship, finally having someone to help him in figuring out how to cope with his own demons. When Cristina learns about Owen and Beth's past from Beth's father (OMG Bernard from LOST! So that's where he's been!) I think its easy to write her off as jealous in the beginning, but once she processes she realizes there is a much deeper issue going on. I also agree that she has no right to complain about not knowing about Beth since she hasn't given him a clue about Burke, but at the same time, I can understand her concern at first because from how they are speaking about the Beth/Owen relationship, it was going on when he met Cristina in the premiere, in that sense I think Cristina has somewhat of a right to be questioning Owen on those grounds, but we soon see how she identifies with Beth in how they both are trying to figure out who this guy is that they both love. Remembering her own relationship perhaps, she convinces Owen to give Beth the dignity of knowing her father is ill, which I find completely unbelieveable that he'd be able to hide something that serious from her, esp since she's a school teacher. Most school teachers are good at not believing the bull crap from anyone including students. I think its also interesting to note that they have made Beth the polar opposite of Cristina. Beth is the epitome of the girl next door, daddy's little girl, its kind of hard to see how Owen can fall for someone like Beth and then for someone like Cristina, although the Cristina he knows is one that has changed over the years. I also wanted to note that in the premiere, when Cristina stops kissing Owen, she says "I don't know you" and he says "So?" this episode really reminded me of that scene. In some ways Cristina knows Owen more than anyone, she's seen him through some of his his dark days, which unfortunately are more to come. They have a high level of intimacy, even though they are not yet sleeping together, the emotional ties between them are bonding them in ways that they can't even explain. Yet there is still so much more she doesn't know. Yes Cristina starts shutting Owen out at first, when he's talking to her at the counter I have to kind of laugh a the hilarity of the symptoms she blurts out for the intern, when she said 'scrotum' at the end LOL it was kind of the combination of drama and humour that Sandra Oh is amazing with. i think that is when her concern shifts. Owen is trying to explain to her the nature of his relationship with Beth, but she is trying to process how this guy she's fallen for appears to be no better than the guy that left her at the altar. Its a momentary Cristina freak out that we haven't seen in a while. Old cristina if you will. When she sees how Beth is with Owen and finds out that he hasn't seen his mother, who still thinks he's in Iraq (which he can't even say) she realizes that there is a much more serious problem going on. From someone who has a bad relationship with her own mother, Cristina is concerened as to why Owen would not visit her, especially after living so close. Owen is thinking cristina's more concerned about Beth, but when she asks him about his mother, it forces him to realize that Cristina understands, and gets him, but wants to help him face his past. I was glad to see Cristina sticking up for Beth in the OR. At the beginning she seemed to make fun of her a bit for her personality, but it seems like Beth was one of those girls who's father was so guilty, he just let her have whatever she wants and was not an independent person. i could see Owen totally falling for her, especially with his savior complex that Cristina called him on in a previous episode. And when Cristina helps him realize that he owes her the truth about her dad more than what really made him end their relationship, I think we see an Owen in transition. Kind of the same Owen we saw in 5x08 when he's so desperate he kisses Cristina outside Joe's bar. He talks to Beth like he's a robot, instead of letting her pepper him with questions that he's not ready to answer about his trauma in Iraq. Now for the scene of all scenes.. One thing I love about Owen is how honest he is with Cristina. The minute he walked up to her in that hallway we knew he'd take the opportunity to explain things to her as best he could. I noticed how Cristina is speechless during the entire scene. Its so heartbreaking when he talks about his mother and Beth mourning for the son that "isn't there"( I actually wrote a line like that on the Grey's Writer's blog that Owen isn't there a while ago hmmm) He loves his mother so much that he doesn't want her to mourn a son that she doesn't have any more. I completely understand this, but I think Cristina also realizes for the first time that he is a man that doesn't want people he loves to experience any pain, and is still trying to save his mother from himself, even though they are living in the same area, bound to run into each other. I also hope, like rural that Cristina convinces Owen to see his mother. When he was talking about being a ghost, and how Cristina was the only one that sees him, really sees him for who he is now, it totally broke my heart. Cristina had the unique experience of knowing Before Owen for a short time, but when he came back into her life a completely different man, she accepted him. I am thinking as well that when Owen's with Cristina it makes him feel real again. Her understanding of him and acceptance keeps him going and if he were to lose that, it would be devastating for him. She looked at him the same way she did after he kissed her outside Joe's bar, on her steps outside her building, in her shower, without judgement and complete acceptance. I think after being with Burke, Cristina realizes how important it is to just accept someone and not try to make them somehting they aren't. With Owen their relationship is truly going to be a day by day thing to work on, especially with his issues that don't seem to be getting better. I thought what little we had of Owen and Cristina was amazing. I give props to Kevin and Sandra for amazing performances, even though they were given little screentime compared to the others. I love Addison and was glad to see her back at SGH and with Taye Diggs/Sam his scenes with Bailey were awesome! I was expecting too much with the singing scene, perhaps, then again I guess I should be surprised at nothing with this show anymore. Addison was one o fmy favorite new characters though so I'm glad that you like her Leanne anyway that's my schpeil
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ruralstar
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Post by ruralstar on Feb 13, 2009 11:28:36 GMT -5
A couple of things to note. FTR, it amazes me that we all seem to have more to say about an episode that really did not focus on the characters that we like to the extent that we would have preferred. Anyway....
Last night confirmed what I had hoped was not true. The kiss with Cristina in the premiere was not meant to be anything deeper than a momentary flirtation. The cavalier, adventuresome Owen we first meet is a boy having fun. He has a girlfriend, whom he still thinks he will come home to at that point. So he's a bit of an Ass right there. We also now understand that the five years since the last date referred to the beginning of his relationship with Beth. The email apparently comes after the RPG ambush which leaves Owen totally incapable of dealing with any kind of emotion. He probably couldn't, and still can't, do much more but a couple of lines. A pathetic way to end a long term-or even short term-relationship. The only thing After Owen knows for sure is that he made a connection with Cristina and as trivial as it once seemed it is the only thing he can grab onto once he returns to the States.
I agree with Marrymeowen that Owen is very much directed by his savior complex. More so as time wears on and he is looking for things to focus on besides himself. If he stops to look at his own life he sees nothing but that ghost. As Kevin told us, Owen's logic is mixed up. He's right to want to spare the ones he loves but not aware of how much his absence will hurt once he finally lets people like his mother back into his life.
Cristina can be forgiven for momentary jealousy I suppose. The line still ticked me off though. At least she doesn't dump that particular bit directly on Owen. She does refocus her fear and frustration into the scene in the OR. I doubt anyone else could have convinced Owen to cross the ethical line and tell Beth the truth about her father's illness. Cristina is already more intimate with Owen than Beth probably ever was. I actually like the dichotomy of Beth vs Cristina. Truly two sides of a coin. Beth loved her big strong Army boyfriend killing spiders for her. And he ate that up once upon a time. After Owen cannot deal with a needy woman. He's just too broken in so many ways.
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Feb 13, 2009 12:00:46 GMT -5
I agree with you it's kind of a bummer to realize that about the premiere. Although I give Cris props for not calling him on it. She could have but she clearly doesn't. its obvious that what happened between them was deeper than what they imagined.
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Post by kaz on Feb 13, 2009 17:18:49 GMT -5
yousfigo, the line right before the last "see me" was "Please Cristina, see me".
And Rural and Marryme, I agree with everything you've said.
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Post by yousfigo on Feb 13, 2009 17:44:22 GMT -5
Thanks Leanne, and kaz.
the ''please Cristina, see me'' part is the one i didnt understand.
Thanks both off u for ur Help.
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Feb 14, 2009 21:55:18 GMT -5
I was watching the re-airing of Before and After today and realized that perhaps what's going on with Owen as well is the five stages of grief. Similar to when someone realizes they are dying, or going through a dramatic transformation where they must mourn a part of themselves or someone else. I think if you look back at owen's episodes once he returns, you can probably pin point these stages according to episodes. Something I snagged from Wikipedia cannonized by Kubler-Ross:
Denial: Example - "I feel fine."; "This can't be happening, not to me!" Anger: Example - "Why me? It's not fair!" "How can this happen, I hate this world!" Bargaining: Example - "Just let me live to see my children graduate."; "I'll do anything, can't you stretch it out? A few more years." I will give my life savings if..."' Depression: Example - "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?" Acceptance: "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."
I dont think the bargaining phase applies, at least not yet, but I dont think it counts when he's asking Cristina to stay with him like he has already. Anyway just something to consider.
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Post by kaz on Feb 15, 2009 1:31:13 GMT -5
I find it interesting that in 7 episodes we've gone from "I don't need you" to "Actually, you're the only thing I need". Talk about forward movement!
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marcy
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Post by marcy on Feb 15, 2009 2:23:09 GMT -5
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