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Post by Leanne on Feb 16, 2009 4:21:05 GMT -5
Let me know what you think
Did Owen break up with Beth before he kissed Cristina in the Premiere or after....?
and why would you think he used email to do it ....?
why was Owen so hard to use this method to break up with Beth?
Ive had a few fans email me asking this question Ive given them my ideas but I just thought it would be nice to hear what others felt
this was my responce Owen is a broken man, his platoon was wiped out during active service in Iraq and he is the only survivor. As a result Owen is suffering from PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) which accounts for his odd behavior at times....bearing all this in mind he seems to feel that Beth would want him to be like he was, his old self before going to war and it seems he is right . He cant deal with that, he is a changed man, he has matured she is still a child worrying about bugs. He is so changed that he doesnt want to confront his mother for fear she will see the change...why he chose to break up with Beth is for this very fact he needs a new start people who dont know him at all who cant wish for him to be as he was. Cris takes him as he is thats why he says she can see him she has no expectations she knows what he is going through. The others like Beth cant see him because they don't recognize the man Owen has become
Why he chose to do it using 2 lines in an email Im not sure, we know he wouldnt have wanted to see her if he felt this way so email would have given him the option of not seeing her but still breaking up~ he probably feels she is better off without him.
~Im sure more will be revealed to us in the next few episode
hope that makes sense its rather complexed but its all related to his PTSD and how he feels about himself .....
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marcy
KMKonliner
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Post by marcy on Feb 16, 2009 5:26:15 GMT -5
I think he broke up with Beth before kissing Cristina. I don't want to think of him as a two-timer. It's not his speed and wouldn't be 'appropriate' as Owen might say. As for the email, it makes sense. He wanted to avoid Beth or didn't want Beth to see him. He didn't want to have to try to explain his change to her. I think he had changed by witnessing war even before the RPG ambush. The later just made his PTSD much worse. IMO
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Post by georgeseurat on Feb 16, 2009 7:48:31 GMT -5
I think with the PTSD thing, no one can judge his decision and action. We totally cannot put ourselves in Owen's shoes. He uses a 2-line email imo is because he just cannot even put his pain into words. He knows Beth is not strong enough to stand his hot and cold thing due to the PTSD, and in order not to hurt her that much, he just send an email. He is a guy who, he knows, will eventually hurt anyone he loves before, that's why he shuts himself out.
As for when did he send the email? I actually don't really care, but there's a theory: He send it after he met Christina, but he was already affected by the war. He saw things differently, and maybe also saw that he was away from Beth farther and farther. This relationship just won't work. Right at that moment, he saw Christina, and BAAM! He knows he found the one, so he broke up with Beth.
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Post by Leanne on Feb 16, 2009 8:14:12 GMT -5
oh George I like your take on this...I would have to agree I feel he changed on entering the war, his bleed out victim (from shower scene) was not a member of his squad so these things happened before his PTSD set in. I think he changed from his arrive in Irak he grew up and its quite evident from his speech while operating that she is a person who needs to be looked after and is more childlike in her ways.
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Post by kaz on Feb 16, 2009 8:19:00 GMT -5
I think we are supposed to believe that the Owen that Cristina met in the season premiere was the "Before" Owen - it's the fairytale ending, and now we're working to come full circle and finish up back at the happy ending.
For that reason, I think Owen ended it with Beth after he met Cristina. I think he kissed Cristina because he felt a connection and given the limited time and opportunity he had, he just acted on impulse (makes sense when you put it in context and realise that he was heading back to war and therefore didn't really have the time at his disposal to do it the right way).
As for whether he broke up with Beth because of Cristina or just because he lost himself after that RPG ambush, I haven't decided on that one yet.
I think he sent the email because he was trying not to burden Beth and cause her any more pain, like he said when he was explaining why her dad wasn't honest with her about the cancer.
A face to face breakup would have revealed to her that the old Owen she knew and loved really was gone and potentially wasn't coming back. Email was a quick and disconnected way to end it, like pulling off a bandaid.
It seems like an assy thing to do but I can see the twisted logic and what he was trying to achieve. Also, using his twisted logic that this is sparing her pain, perhaps the more ruthless and cold the method of breakup, the more likely Beth is to move on and get over him...
They're my present thoughts but they could change at any moment. LOL
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Post by georgeseurat on Feb 16, 2009 8:30:31 GMT -5
I think he sent the email because he was trying not to burden Beth and cause her any more pain, like he said when he was explaining why her dad wasn't honest with her about the cancer. A face to face breakup would have revealed to her that the old Owen she knew and loved really was gone and potentially wasn't coming back. Email was a quick and disconnected way to end it, like pulling off a bandaid. I totally agree with you about this!
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Post by agneskenya on Feb 16, 2009 8:34:49 GMT -5
He might have wanted to break up with Beth after meeting Cristina, but I believe that he actually sent the email in the After. He's a decent guy, there's no way he wouldn't have given her a real explanation in the Before.
Owen had been in Iraq 5 years before the RPG ambush, and I can guarantee that in the SP, he wasn't damaged yet. His PTSD is definitely due to the loss of his unit and not to "the war in general", even though "the war in general" his traumatizing in itself. For him, it's just not the way it played out. Is behavior during the shower scene is about an older event than the ambush, but due to the PTSD triggered by the ambush.
So, I think he saw Beth after meeting Cristina, did not break up yet by fear of causing her pain, and finally did it in the after because he really coudn't let her believe that it could work out anymore. I definitely think he wouldn't have married Beth even if he had stayed in the Before. My take is that he didn't tell her just after meeting Cris to avoid her being sad, and since he knew he was going back, he might have thought something like "I might die over there anyway, so I'll break up with her only if I make it back" (which would be a twisted logic, but hey, what can you do?). Regarding Cristina, they had that connection in the Before, and it didn't stop in the After. To me he doesn't reach for her just because he's in the After, but more because she saw who he was in the Before and still considers him as "there" in the After, unlike Beth.
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Post by georgeseurat on Feb 16, 2009 8:43:45 GMT -5
Well, kind of off-topic, and I definitely hope this will not be true, definitely. I just want to say that Christina is just lucky that who she falls in love is Owen the decent guy, as far as we know. If Owen is actually a con-artist, she will be in real trouble! I mean, that "see me" speech just makes anyone wanting to jump on him immediately! If Owen is a sex cheater, he is a darn good cheater, and hot, and intellegent! Maybe he wants to broke up with Beth LONG TIME AGO, but he uses the war to be an excuse. Beth's return is not in Owen's expectation, but he cleverly uses it to break up with Beth entirely in not a very ugly way, then uses his "see me" speech to make Christina believe in him. Of course, this is just bad, so I hope the writers won't let this happen.
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ruralstar
Kevin McKidd Online staff
website McFic
Life is a Journey of the Mind. Anything can happen....Just wait
Posts: 2,233
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Post by ruralstar on Feb 16, 2009 9:01:08 GMT -5
I adore the Owen character for so many reasons. After this last episode I found myself mulling over just how much of an ass he might have been in the premiere. To me, Before Owen was a good ole boy looking for some action. He was in the sand pit for the adventure. He encourages Cristina to do the same. I agree that the incident he described in the shower happened before the RPG ambush but that the Owen of the Before had figured out how to manage that loss in his mind. He still saw the war as a place to learn, to see new things, to heal people in the most dynamic circumstances possible or he never would have encouraged Cris to leave SGH. We also see an Owen who is fiercely loyal to his personal values. He looked at Cris but didn't really think twice about the Cheif's job offer during the premeire. The kiss was a moment of connection but not something he expected to continue in the future. Ironic that his connection to Cristina is about the only thing keeping him from flying apart at present.
I believe the email came in the days immediately following the ambush. We don't know if Owen was physically injured but I would say he sent the email while still overseas. I don't think he consciously chose to end the relationship that way. I don't think he had a choice. He could not see anything beyond a professional career in his future. No one knows him personally even now, except Cristina. He doesn't have the words to explain whats happened and is still happening to him. I doubt he even considered whether Beth could handle a real explanation at the time. To Michael and any other outside it would appear to be the coward's way out. To Owen it was the only option. With the passage of time he obviously regrets how things ended. You can see that when he's talking to Michael and the latter tells him that he lost all rights to give him advice after the email. That hurts. Owen looks at Michael as somewhat of a father figure. He knew about the cancer, he knew where Michael was being treated. The two of them were in on the secret together for probably most of the three years that Michael had been diagnosed. They shared the in-joke about the bugs. While I would like to think that Owen's choice of an email break-up was some sort of noble sentiment I don't think I buy it in light of what PTSD has done to his personality. Now that his self-control is truly crumbling he is starting to understand the misguided nature of the choices he's made. The consequences of those choices have him flummoxed because he would not have made them were he still a healthy person psychologically. Owen is a victim of his own savior complex. In trying to spare everyone he is slowly losing them all.
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Post by georgeseurat on Feb 16, 2009 9:19:21 GMT -5
Rural, this is spot on. I also think that he doesn't have a choice. I also love Owen in the sense that he takes all the blame even though what he did is not what he wants. He didn't defend himself, except that he explain it to Christina. We can see how important Christina is in Owen's life now.
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ruralstar
Kevin McKidd Online staff
website McFic
Life is a Journey of the Mind. Anything can happen....Just wait
Posts: 2,233
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Post by ruralstar on Feb 16, 2009 9:34:02 GMT -5
Agreed about Owen not defending himself. From what I've seen of the GA characters, the last 5 eps of s4 and all of this season, Owen seems to be one of the few who is consistently honest. He has secrets but they are not kept in a calculated way. They are kept because he cannot figure out how to live with them in the open. When he is called on the carpet by Beth and Cristina, he tells the truth. At least the truth as he sees it. If Michael gives him a chance I don't doubt that he will tell him the truth as well. As soon as he can find the words.
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Post by Leanne on Feb 16, 2009 10:01:13 GMT -5
I checked the Wiki for Owen Hunt ~ his so called character description, might throw some light on this subject Personality Shonda Rimes, the show's creator, says that Hunt is "an old-fashioned tortured hero" and likens him to Heathcliff.[5] Mark Wilding one of the show's writers, says that Hunt is a character who is "fighting his own set of demons" and that it is understandable that he may lack some compassion (in regards to injuring, then operating on pigs in the season five episode Life During Wartime) as after seeing "19 of your friends die in one day, it tends to make other things in your life not seem quite as important or dramatic."[6] In reference to the tragic demise of Hunt's entire unit, another of the show's writers, Bill Harper, comments that; " If anyone ever wanted to detach, if anyone wanted to flee from being human, it’s Owen." [7] Another of the show's writers, Joan Rater, describes Hunt as "Complicated. And tortured." [8] Relationships The character of Owen Hunt had an almost instant attraction to Cristina Yang since his first appearance in Seattle Grace, illustrated by the passionate kiss they share soon after they meet.[1] Matt Roush of TVGuide says of this first meeting; "the instant sparks between him [Hunt] and Yang were electrifying."[9] In a later episode, Hunt and Yang share another kiss.[4] Stacy McKee, one the show's writers, describes this kiss as "a little desperate –- at least at first" and is underlain by Owen's desire not to "lose his ability to connect with other people."[10] Kevin McKidd says that his character and the character of Cristina Yang are "soulmates."[11] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Hunt
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Feb 16, 2009 12:57:02 GMT -5
I've been struggling with this since I figured out the time line after Owen said he hasn't been on a first date in 5 years. I think i'm in agreement with those of you who said that his relationship with Beth was already over when he met Cristina. I really want to believe that Owen didn't cheat on Beth with Cristina, but at the same time considering how things have evolved, it appears they were on the outs before he was going away to Iraq. Otherwise there wouldn't have been such a connection with Cristina, I think he was realizing how nice it would be to not have to take care of someone 24/7 but rather have them be your professional, intellectual and emotional equal. When he met Cristina they both seemed to be experiencing something they haven't in a long time, just pure attraction.
I think that Beth is one of those types who it is very draining to have in your life. She's so needy, like a child even though she is obviously not a stupid person, she is educated enough to be a teacher, but I think that she doesn't have the proper coping mechanisms because she was so sheltered by her father, and it was further enabled by Owen. They both were "Team Beth" for so long that she basically will have no idea how to manage without her father or someone, like Owen to take care of her. I kind of love that Owen is the type of guy that would go to his girlfriend's apartment just to kill a spider. But at the same time, we all know Cristina is the type that would have trouble showing emotion in front of anyone, no matter how minor. They really are polar opposites, and the writers made it that way for a reason. Yes it is a plot device, but as something to demonstrate Owen's after-life and the severity of it, it had to be constructed in that way.
Cristina on the other hand realizes that Owen is falling apart. And for some reason is willing to just forget all her baggage and try to help him. Old Cristina would have run away long ago, but she is completely in whatever it is with Owen. She was so judged by Burke that she's willing to just accept Owen the way he is in spite of the image she remembers of the man she met in the premiere. Poor Owen, he's kind of like a zombie in between death and life and trying to hold on to fragments of what his life used to be, yet at the same time there is this complete rejection of his past life which will eventually eat away at him until he can find the courage to face his mother, which I hope Cristina will help him with. As I said in my review, at the end of the day Owen's a lost little boy that just needs to be taken care of instead of taking care of everyone else. Rural is right that he is a victim of his own savior complex, but I think more than ever he realizes he can't save everyone, especially himself at this point. This is why I think if they do an episode with Owen's mother it will be very moving, more than the others. He is obviously a man who values the women in his life, and like Cristina, mates for life when it comes to relationships. So to have something so solid with Cristina at this point can only help in their journey. I truly hope the writers have Owen's mother find out about Owen through himself or Cristina rather than through Beth. It would be too contrived and I would like the idea of Cristina maybe even finding Owen's mother to prep her on his condition before convincing him to see her. Cristina is not the type that relishes in meeting someone's parents, so it would say a lot if she was trying to help Owen in such a way. although if he's not ready for that, it could completely backfire.
My only fear is that the because the writers left the Beth s/l open ended in terms of her father's condition, that it will leave the door open for her to seek out Owen for comfort. I think somehting like that would be too contrived, and because the writing is so inconsistent lately, it is a possibilty. I could see Owen going through something where he wants to feel needed instead of being taken care of, and maybe Beth steps back into his life again and fills that void. I'd be very disappointed if he has an affair with Beth while he's with Cristina, and i can't see Cristina ever getting over something like that, even if it is Owen. But since KMK said Owen's logic is all messed up, I can't help but have something like that in the back of my mind.
EDIT:
So something else I just realized, both Beth's father and Owen were trying to shield Beth from trauma so badly that now she's pretty much messed up for the rest of her life because of their protection. I think Cristina recognizes this, and its why she can feel sympathy for Beth instead of jealousy which I think she was more confused about the situation at first than jealous. We're supposed to hate Beth, the way old Cristina would have, but so obviously doesn't and realizes there is something bigger going on when Owen can't tell his mother he's back. Trying, like us, to figure out the timeline. What Cristina has the advantage of is not fully knowing Owen in the before, as she said in the premiere "I don't know you" and that will continue to be a theme through out as she continues to become more intimate with Owen on an emotional, rather than physical level, she will also discover things about him that she never thought like how he lives close to his mother, but can't bare to see her. Her not knowing the before Owen is actually a mixed blessing, but after-Owen is something that will continue to challenge her in more ways than either of them realize.
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Post by singer201 on Feb 16, 2009 16:34:54 GMT -5
I tried to write something last night, but gave up because it wasn't coming out right. I agree with your analyses of our dear Owen.
I can't decide if Owen and Beth's relationship was already falling apart when Owen kissed Cristina in the SP, but I definitely feel that the "2-line email" came from Iraq after the RPG attack. If he was suffering then as he is now, I can see where composing even two lines of a "Dear Jane" email would be a supreme effort. (I'll admit that I've sent news similar to this to family members via email because it was just too hard to face them.)
I believe that Owen has decided that Beth's needy personality is either now too childish and undesirable, or else something he just can't cater to anymore because he's working so hard to keep himself together. He was very much the "white knight" in the before--witness his words to Cristina, "damsel in distress", as he scoops her up and carries her into the hospital to tend her wound. He's still protecting Beth and his mom from his "after" self, but with the screwed-up logic the PTSD created.
Cristina will be good for Owen--she's being supportive and kind, but she's also holding his feet to the fire by telling him he has "big problems", urging him to let Beth know the truth about her dad, and asking pointedly about him seeing his mom. I'm hoping she'll also urge him to see a mental health professional--soon.
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Post by kaz on Feb 16, 2009 17:51:20 GMT -5
One of the problems with trying to figure this out could stem from the fact that Shonda hadn't even contemplated the ex-fiancee storyline when the Season Premiere was written. She says she has the whole season planned out in advance but I really wonder to what extent that is true. She might have the bare bones of the character arcs but I question whether she fills in the detail ahead of time.
Even if she did know, I doubt that Kevin would have been in the loop back then. They tend to keep the actors in the dark as long as possible. I know he hesitated before the kiss but I think there are other ways to explain that are unrelated to him having a fiancee at the time.
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Feb 16, 2009 18:57:28 GMT -5
Well could be a gap in the writing. I do remember her saying that there are a bunch of clues in the premiere that we shoudl pay attention to. The scene where owen carries cristina into the hospital is one of them I think. Plus the whole 'mending' of them that happens in the first episode. I think "So"? is also key... ugh my brain hurts
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