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Post by georgeseurat on Mar 31, 2009 17:04:28 GMT -5
I'm not saying the blocking is wrong. They definitely should avoid Owen being near to Cristina. But I senses that they judge him too. That bothers me. I mean, he's their collegue for months. Surely they know what a person Owen is through collaboration. Well, you can argue that to them, maybe this is Owen's real side, that's why they act like that. Then, it is Cristina's responsiblity to clarify things. It's kind of dumb (sorry) for Cristina if she still wants to hide the PTSD thing of Owen after what happens, and it's also not fair to Owen of being judged.
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Mar 31, 2009 17:18:21 GMT -5
Its also not fair to Owen to put it out in the open when he isn't fully dealing with it yet. This is the reason why there are so many stigma's attached to those who suffer PSTD. People label the sufferers as "Crazy" or going postal, not fully realizing the depth of their mental illness. Mer and Callie represent those who are uneducated about it, as Cristina said to Mer, Owen has war wounds that are just as bad as physical wounds, why should she walk away? They are doctors and should know more about the disorder than what they showed us last week, but since Cristina is theirf riend I will cut them some slack. At least Derek understands and can help educate them about it when the need comes, and at least Cristina will not be the only one carrying the burden. I think its good that they are taking time apart for this reason, he can try to help fix himself then they can get back to business.
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Post by singer201 on Mar 31, 2009 17:43:23 GMT -5
I have a theory that Cristina and Owen are kind of mirrors of Ellis and the Chief, when you really start thinking about the layering it kind of makes sense esp with the diaries. I do see the parallels Cristina has to Ellis--beginning with wishing to BE the daughter of Ellis Grey in the series premiere. Cris is the same kind of hard-nosed, driving, and talented surgeon that Ellis was, a little lacking on the maternal side (watching Bailey's baby), and trying to balance a career and a husband/family (her talk with the lucid Ellis). Each even had a relationship with a man who didn't understand her (Cris/Burke and Ellis/Thatcher) and a second relationship with someone who did (Cris/Owen and Ellis/Chief). Of course, Ellis and the Chief didn't work out and Ellis was not a great mom, but I see much more positive things for Cristina and Owen.
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Post by Geeze on Apr 3, 2009 17:21:46 GMT -5
After probably the 256th viewing of the Mating Dance Hotter Than A Thousand Suns, there are just no words for how amazing the acting, directing, blocking, camera angles and aura of this puppy was. There should be an award for best network series sex just for them. Actually, not sex. No one could doubt that this was good old fashioned feast-of-all-senses, flat out LOVE!
And what makes it more stunning is that they (the actors) could surrender their real selves to the characters for the purpose of making such Art and then after "cut" one probably hauls the other up, they talk about what to eat for lunch and go their separate ways making work banter while we are breathless, some of us still have the shakes and some are going to have to go into a 12-step program to get over this.
I feel like I've been to a very poignant ballet or a moving opera or followed a 12-city concert headbanger's rock tour. Standing o, people, standing o. And KMcK's time in drama school doing Germanic movement pieces and all that dance training for SO was NOT a waste of time.........just beautiful movements and lines.
Another thing, the way it was shot, she could have been almost fully clothed once the tops came off. The minimalism of gesture and actual nudity was brilliant.
It was just beyond beauty.
(reaches for a fresh hankie) Talk amongst yourselves for a mo.
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Apr 3, 2009 18:15:51 GMT -5
well it also totally broke the whole cliche of the on-call room sex that the show usually portrays. I mean they were definately making love there. I always thought it was too early for them to have sex, but when I saw how the story progressed and how everything kind of just happened, I felt like it was as it should be. And even though she broke it off, you could see the anguish, and feel positive that they are reuniting shortly.
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Post by kaz on Apr 3, 2009 18:21:35 GMT -5
It was definitely a powerful way to show how very different this relationship is to most others on the show - ie, we've had sex scenes in oncall rooms just this season from Mark/Lexie, Mark/Callie, Izzie/Denny (herself?), Izzie/Alex (at least implied) but nothing quite like this.
I keep saying it but this really was so beautifully shot (and acted, directed and edited, of course), with a focus not on the physical aspect so much but still rather on the emotional intimacy and the connection between them.
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Apr 3, 2009 18:33:59 GMT -5
A lot of it was the intense eye contact, at least for me
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Post by Geeze on Apr 3, 2009 18:54:16 GMT -5
This may not make sense to anyone but me but the difference in her hair is bothering me. In all of the scenes where they are horizontal (precious few so far) her hair is spread out like a halo. At the Death of All Hope lovemaking aftermath her hair is all streaming upward and I don't know why that conjures up death imagery to me. Maybe it's so Bride of Frankenstein or Hair Nazi (no hair for you!). I dunno. (is very puzzled)
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Apr 3, 2009 19:09:21 GMT -5
Actually I noticed that as well, I guess they just did that to emphasize the panic she was feeling at the time.
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Post by cl3me on Apr 4, 2009 0:12:41 GMT -5
For me her hair being up was about exposing her neck. You can even see the strangulation marks. Her neck has been important symbolism throughout their storyline. It`s to highlight her vulnerability in that moment, and that she doesn`t feel safe in his arms afterall. As much as they care about one another and as badly as these 2 want things to be, there`s no denying the damage anymore. There is still hope for them though, as Owen uses it as a catalyst to seek help.
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Geniusmentis
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Post by Geniusmentis on Apr 4, 2009 5:08:10 GMT -5
Her neck has been important symbolism throughout their storyline. Wow, you are right! I didn't think about that.
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Apr 5, 2009 12:14:30 GMT -5
So i just rewatched the scene from the premiere when Mer, Cris and Owen are in the exam room, she has the icicle still in her chest and she yells something like "Get this thing out of me" Typically when i've heard that on tv shows its when women are in labor. I am sure I am reading too much into this, but since Shonda says there are a ton of clues in the premiere, I wonder if that might be another clue, esp considering all the pregnancy rumors now. Hmm
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Post by Geeze on Apr 11, 2009 8:14:25 GMT -5
When he approached her in the On Call Boudoir, he looked like he had been crying for days. She looked the same when she told Meredith she had broken up with Owen.
Umm, exactly WHAT was broken up? I hope they know but do we know or have some idea exactly what broke up? You don't break up a friendship, you don't break up with a friend with benefits (you would either continue the friendship or just drift apart, no harm, no foul), so exactly what did she break up?
That piece of idle speculation came up because with all this talk of taking a step back and having to be apart yada, yada yada, I don't see that they have to really actually be apart except no sleepovers and no eating of heavy foods and chilling out on the sofa. I don't see why Victorian courting and eyesex is out of the question.........unless she and/or Owen both want to get some distance solely to get himself better I don't see why the assumption he has to vanish from her life and/or line of vision.
They've already had lovesex and he didn't try to kill her once. I can't say the same for some of us but that's another topic.
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Post by snowbound on Apr 11, 2009 8:51:21 GMT -5
"I don't see that they have to really actually be apart except no sleepovers and no eating of heavy foods and chilling out on the sofa."
Precisely, Geeze. It's as though Cristina, when she had more time to reflect, decided that she lost all trust in Owen. If they couldnt fall asleep together then they couldnt be a couple? It's so contrived. And I dont think it rings true. In real life - would you make the same decision? I sure wouldnt. I'd be careful. I'd be peeved that by having to be careful I would feel less free, or at least less carefree. And surely it would affect the relationship . But that's life. Instead we have the plot contrivance that keeps them artificially apart.
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Post by ruralstar on Apr 11, 2009 11:01:34 GMT -5
Agreed with both of you. I don't see them as broken up, just being forced into a more cautious situation. I suppose Meredith wouldn't be happy with anything less from Cristina but it's not her life, it's Cristina's. I can't imagine they will be 'apart' for very long. A lot happened in a very short time. It would be hard for Cristina to process all at once with the added pressure of well meaning friends and Izzy's illness.
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Apr 11, 2009 11:31:17 GMT -5
I think the whole point of it is it had to happen for him to go and get help so that they can actually be happy together. Basically Owen can only focus on one thing at a time as we know, so I think a temporary break so that he goes and gets help is reasonable. In their hearts they aren't broken up as we know but this was inevitable so that they can move forward in a positive direction. I'm interested in seeing how Meredith and Owen interact after this, esp when she'll see Owen and Derek forming a friendship. Burke and Derek were never on the same level and were never friendly. But I can see Owen, Cristina Meredith and Derek out together, etc. like old friends. I also think that Derek and Owen will help each other heal as well. I just wonder if Meredith is going to be sympathetic to Cristina or is going to have an "I told you so" mentality. She kind of didn't seem to care that much when Cristina told her she broke up with Owen, but crawled into bed with her because Cristina needed her. I think the whole problem is Meredith and Callie didn't see the Owen and Cristina romance from the beginning, they can't understand the bond with Owen and also dont identify with his issues and why Cristina, and now Derek, understand him.
I also think that it is the first time Cristina couldn't 'see' Owen which is obviously the deal breaker for getting therapy so that they can get back to one another.
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Post by snowbound on Apr 11, 2009 14:18:40 GMT -5
I think the whole point of it is it had to happen for him to go and get help so that they can actually be happy together. Basically Owen can only focus on one thing at a time as we know, so I think a temporary break so that he goes and gets help is reasonable. I also think that it is the first time Cristina couldn't 'see' Owen which is obviously the deal breaker for getting therapy so that they can get back to one another. I dont think a separation or break up necessarily had to happen in order for him to get help. Cristina could have just explained that they cannot spend the night together and they cannot move forward in the relationship unless he gets help (for her if not for him.) He really needs to do this for himself first, and only then for the two of them. I think he was pretty traumatized by the choking incident and he would have gone for help within a day or so. (Especially with Cristina encouraging it.) I'm not sure what you mean by "only focus on one thing at a time". Owen is one of the best teachers of all the attendings, he's a good surgeon, he's fallen in love. He has done all of these things at the same time. Maybe the energy that it will take him to get well will sap his strength from other endeavors? So he must cut back..... I'm afraid that the contrived separation is mostly a Shonda Plot Device of Courting. They get to start over again with all of the flirting, build up, etc. She (and other tv producers to be sure) love to keep the couples apart so that the angst builds and they can reunite. It irritates me, but I'm used to it in TV land.
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Post by Geeze on Apr 11, 2009 14:42:02 GMT -5
When are you talking about she couldn't "see" him? I'm interested because it struck me that when they were on the vent before On Call Love, he went to hold or kiss her and she drew back and I thought she gave him the same look she gave him back when he asked her to "SEE me" but she was teary-eyed this time.
They just say so much without words.
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Post by MarryMeOwen on Apr 11, 2009 14:58:10 GMT -5
I think that the break up was needed in order for Owen to have some time to work on himself so that Cristina and Owen can have a happier couplehood. They were both in denial about how bad his PSTD was until the choking incident, and the fact that she was having a panic attack when she was laying in bed next to him afraid to fall asleep was the breaking point. Sleeping apart would not fix anything, it would just be a bandaid and a way to try to work around something that would keep getting darker in the end.
What I mean by him not being able to focus on more than one thing at a time is that he seems to get overwhelmed when he has to deal with certain issues and working. He took Cristina off his service after he threw her against the wall, why he became so distressed in 5x14 when his past starts coming around to haunt him. He is the kind of person that is good at bringing things in the open, but when it comes to himself he isn't ready to deal with certain issues and that's why we see him lashing out with things like the choking, etc. He lets things build up inside before he will get help and I think he has been in denial about how bad his situation is up until the situation with Cristina. I think that Owen is so good at being hardcore and professional that when he gets emotional its a whole different ball game, especially when it has to do with PSTD issues. Like Kevin said, Owen has seen so much trauma that when he's in a high trauma/stress situation he's great because he has a sensibility about it, but its when Owen is emotionally involved in something, he seems to fall apart.
What I meant by Cristina now having trouble seeing Owen is going back to the whole conversation he had with Cristina about him trying to protect Beth and his mother from realizing the Owen they knew is dead. He tried so hard to protect them, but he's really just hurting them more. Then on the flipside there is Cristina who has accepted him and all his battle scars, but he can't protect her from himself physically when his PSTD is in control. She's trying so hard to be the strong one, but since the choking incident, I think Cristina realizes that she feels the same about him, but she also doesn't see him in the same light. That's why Owen can't live with himself knowing he wasn't able to protect Cristina, a person that has been protecting and helping him get through this for so long.
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Post by marcy on Apr 11, 2009 18:21:22 GMT -5
I first thought as you did Geeze. No falling asleep together but the rest is fine. But now I think they've broken up for two reasons: If it weren't a full breakup then Owen wouldn't have had as strong an impetus to seek help. Despite however difficult the journey would be, his prize at the end is Cristina. Also, I'd imagine they would want a clean-slate relationship when both were whole and healthy. PTSD manifests itself in many ways so his blowing up at her for even simple things isn't out of the question. It's best to have that dealt with before beginning a serious relationship. I guess the big reason is, really, that it is first and foremost a soap opera. It doesn't have to make sense it just has to keep viewers talking like this.
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