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Post by browncoatwhit on Mar 20, 2013 15:06:54 GMT -5
Justine sez:
I just have to say I was gobsmacked by this statement. As a proud member of an adoptive family, and as someone who has visited international orphanages and volunteered with foster kids in the United States, I have to say that there is nothing "cheap" or "feminist" about adoption.
Justine, I doubt you made those words as a slam on adoption, but seriously -- I would love to see Grey's Anatomy feature adoption MORE, rather than less! We need FAR fewer people simply SPAWNING because they have ovaries and can, and FAR more families willing to adopt children who need good, loving homes.
And I would LOVE to see Cristina agree to adopt a child with Owen. I would love Cristina even more than I already do for making that choice!
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Post by browncoatwhit on Mar 20, 2013 15:17:54 GMT -5
Huh. I'm betting the "triangle" relationship sited in that slide will prove to be April/Jackson/HunkyEMT or Jo/Alex/ChestyPecsInPink. I haven't SEEN the slide in question so I have only my gut instincts to go on here... but I have a hard time thinking Shonda would have a big Cristina/Meredith/Dereck fallout without a LOT more longterm build-up!
Just my two cents -- I just don't feel like we've had enough preptime for that yet. We'd have to see a lot more smoke signals before that major of a fire were dropped on our collective heads.
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Post by S5fan on Mar 20, 2013 15:24:38 GMT -5
And I would LOVE to see Cristina agree to adopt a child with Owen. Why?
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Post by hopew on Mar 20, 2013 15:54:30 GMT -5
Is there a possibility that Cristina's feelings about not wanting to have children are more about not wanting to go through the early stages - ie of having a baby, which is entirely dependent on its parents, and needing to put her career on hold for a time etc - but that she is not necessarily opposed to caring for an older child, who is demanding in other ways but not as co-dependent?? I don't know. It just feels like with these potential guardianship storylines (of Meredith's kids and this mystery boy) Shonda could be setting it up to say 'I told you Cris would never have a baby, not that she would never be a mum' or something along those lines so she can maintain that she never backed down on this. I'm coming a bit late into this conversation, but here it is anyway: I don't think this impending storyline is insulting to any single character or OOC for anyone, or anything of the sort. And I agree with Kaz -- I think the potential guardianship storyline is just laying down bread crumbs for future plotlines. Here's my personal angle: my husband and I are both career professionals. Neither of us have ever wanted kids. However, we're also both have clear understandings with both sides of our families -- should anything happen to my sister, or should anything happen to my brother-in-law and his wife, we will be there for our nieces and nephews. We are capable of being responsible, loving and invested parents to our nieces and nephews IF that should be necessary. We ALL hope it never will be, but just because we don't want children of our own doesn't mean we won't step up if that should become necessary (and it is a very real possibility in the case of my sister and her three little kids). My experience is the same as browncoatwhit's. My husband and I do not have kids and are fine with that. But for quite a while, if the wrong combination of close friends and family went down in the same plane crash, we might have had responsibility for up to 7 of them, because we'd been asked to act as guardians by two sets of friends and one family member. We're pretty much past the danger zone, since most of those kids have grown up by now. But we agreed to be named as guardians in 3 different wills, because in each case we cared about the parents and their kids. We don't know yet what Mer will ask Cristina, or what Cristina will say in response. But if it does involve Cristina acting as guardian to Zola and the new baby if anything happens to Meredith and Derek, my hope - and my expectation, given the progress that Cristina and Owen have made recently - is that Cristina discusses the situation with Owen before responding. And I agree with Kaz that Shonda may well be drawing a distinction between Cristina actually having a baby and Cristina playing a parental role in an older child's life. I'm not sure how the writers can maintain any audience sympathy for Cristina as a character if she is written as refusing to help an actual child in need, rather than just as refusing to consider having a child of her own. And before anyone refers, again, to the abortion, I'll say again what I've said before, which is that IMO Cristina did not think of the fetus as a "child" - - she thought of the fetus as a failure of birth control. It was Owen who, upon being told Cristina was pregnant, began to think of the pregnancy and the baby as "real." That's why the abortion was so hard on him. But since Cristina didn't see the situation the same way, she couldn't understand how deeply he was hurt by her decision. He was mourning the loss of something she didn't even think existed. She may not have changed her mind about having children, but I think she has grown enough emotionally to at least understand and respect that Owen's feelings were different from hers.
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Post by hopew on Mar 20, 2013 16:11:49 GMT -5
Huh. I'm betting the "triangle" relationship sited in that slide will prove to be April/Jackson/HunkyEMT or Jo/Alex/ChestyPecsInPink. I haven't SEEN the slide in question so I have only my gut instincts to go on here... but I have a hard time thinking Shonda would have a big Cristina/Meredith/Dereck fallout without a LOT more longterm build-up! Just my two cents -- I just don't feel like we've had enough preptime for that yet. We'd have to see a lot more smoke signals before that major of a fire were dropped on our collective heads. I braved the wilds of twop to see the summary of the casting sides posted there. The sides seem to describe a triangle relationship among the guest characters (there's a magician whose wife/assistant is injured during a trick; he finds out when his other female assistant starts intervening in decisions about her treatment that the wife and the other assistant were in love with each other). I think concluding from the situation described in that side that the story will be an anvil for Mer/Cristina/Derek or Mer/Cristina/Owen is really, really a stretch. It may be an anvil for other characters; it may have another significance entirely. We just don't know yet. IMO, this season seems to be moving toward a more natural separation between Mer and Cristina, not a dramatic "break up" like in Season 5, or even their fight at the beginning of this season. Mer didn't admit to Cristina that she was pregnant until she was past her first trimester; at the end of Season 6 she told Cristina before she told Derek. Cristina has gotten very good at ignoring Mer's texts, certainly when they interrupt her time with Owen. They are each more focused on their separate lives than they were before, which is IMO long overdue! Maybe there will be some kind of an explosion between them, but if that was the plan it would be more dramatic for that to happen at a time when they are particularly close, not when they are already moving apart. JMHO.
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Post by justine on Mar 20, 2013 16:53:11 GMT -5
Do not know if we are going to see it happen but yet, Meredith needs to focuse on her own family, the family she creates with Derek, as my speculation would be Cristina/Meredith/Derek = Cristina is out definitely. In the past, during season 6, Meredith had been shown to be able to drive Cristina away when it comes to her relationship with Derek. Do not remember which episode exactly, but while Derek was chief of surgery and tried to hire another Head for Cardio Department as Teddy Altman's contract was to end, Meredith told Cristina regarding her doubts on Owen's feeling for Cristina and shut down after when Cristina asked for more details and information because it was something she shares with Derek and Cristina was not allow to step in ! Remember ? And during the shooting rampage, Meredith pushed physically Cristina aside in order to go to Derek, not once but twice ! But as a hardcore CO fan, I hope that it would be Cristina who would cut the last string of this unhealthy codependent relationship. Then maybe it would be Owen and Meredith bickering about who Cristina is and what she wants...nothing news. Meredith knows the former Cristina better than Owen ( ok please, just let me put this one, i know lot of you will disagree about this last statement... ;D) and she has not realized that her best friend has changed and Owen knows the "new Cristina" better than she now does ! So I wish to see Owen/Cristina/Meredith = Meredith out definitely !
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Post by drwyatt on Mar 20, 2013 17:04:56 GMT -5
Wow such a good discussion! It's so interesting how our personal experiences color how we see the characters and the situations.
My whole interest in seeing Owen and Cristina grapple with the issue of children comes from knowing friends who struggled with the very same choice. To love each other, be together and childless, or to break up over it. They are such a wonderful aunt and uncle, godparents to tons of kids, but have an independent and very fulfilling life. And she is not grieving. And I have confidence in KMK and SO to deliver really beautifully on whatever is written.
browncoatwhit, unfortunately, I think many people hold in their hearts a feeling that biology is best, and adoption second best. I have seen it sadly in my own family, people that I love who have shocked me with their elevation of blood ties over wonderful loving bonds through adoption. It's sad. ( I want to make clear that I am not speaking for justine here or assuming that this is how you think, just making my own observations)
I do think that the triangle in question and the specific mention of deception in the spoiler relates to April, the EMT and the virgin issue.
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Post by justine on Mar 20, 2013 17:24:25 GMT -5
Wow ( I want to make clear that I am not speaking for justine here or assuming that this is how you think, just making my own observations) And I thank you to give me the benefit of the doubt. Not against adoption, but absolutely against the way Shonda will handle it. This goes for abortion, Shonda's version of femenism...a diservice to women more than helping us ...! This women should not to treat some theme. Above all after the Izzie sex ghost season...! But hey, this is a thread for speculation and fun, let's move forward !
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Post by drwyatt on Mar 20, 2013 18:35:06 GMT -5
I'm glad you didn't take offense, Justine but I have to disagree with you regarding how shonda treats adoption. I don't view her handling of it in the same way that you do. Sent from my ADR6350 using proboards
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Post by browncoatwhit on Mar 20, 2013 20:19:05 GMT -5
sez Justine:
Spot on! I think that's very true -- and it will be interesting to see if the GA writer's room intents for this to be the case and to show Meredith as catching a clue. But it is so lovely to see Cristina finally showing positive development, after the last couple of --cough--ahem--cough-- "difficult" years for us C/O fans, isn't it?
drwyatt sez:
Yeah. It's pretty sad and pretty shocking to see this sort of ignorance still existing in hearts and minds today, isn't it? I have nothing but pity for anyone who thinks that an adopted child is somehow "less than" a biologically-born child in terms of love, commitment and joy.
Tania asks "Why?" in reference to my comment that I would I love LOVE love to see Owen and Cristina adopt a child? To quote a recent quip from Bill Gates: "Because it's 2013!" What could be more beautiful than to see Cristina decide to step up and join Owen in the decision to raise together a child who needs them? Owen and Cristina are each broken creatures in their own way; that a traumatized child can be the final catalyst to bring them together and heal them? That would be a fabulous storyline! Owen and Cristina can can always choose later on to have a biological child; having them come back together fully, now, in order to create a family with an adopted child is poetic. I LOVE IT!
(In this particular storyline, I wonder how much Owen's bond with the traumatized boy is going to reflect back on that heartbreaking story he told Callie & Derek a couple of seasons ago, of the two children who's parents he lost in an ER room after a car accident?)
And I'm all for seeing Shonda showcase more of her characters adopting -- I've got more respect for a professional woman who considers adoption than being forcefed another professional woman incapable of using reliable birth control And the more Shonda wants to showcase her characters adopting children -- bravo for her! I see that as the same sort "duh!" as Shonda's color-blind casting methods.
(anyone else having some strange board issues tonight?)
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Post by drwyatt on Mar 20, 2013 20:34:00 GMT -5
(In this particular storyline, I wonder how much Owen's bond with the traumatized boy is going to reflect back on that heartbreaking story he told Callie & Derek a couple of seasons ago, of the two children who's parents he lost in an ER room after a car accident?) I see we are having another mindmeld!!! I thought the very same thing but forgot to post it.
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Post by S5fan on Mar 20, 2013 23:44:10 GMT -5
Tania asks "Why?" in reference to my comment that I would I love LOVE love to see Owen and Cristina adopt a child? To quote a recent quip from Bill Gates: "Because it's 2013!" What could be more beautiful than to see Cristina decide to step up and join Owen in the decision to raise together a child who needs them? Owen and Cristina are each broken creatures in their own way; that a traumatized child can be the final catalyst to bring them together and heal them? That would be a fabulous storyline! Owen and Cristina can can always choose later on to have a biological child; having them come back together fully, now, in order to create a family with an adopted child is poetic. I LOVE IT! She doesn´t want to be a mother, she wants to be a surgeon, she is a scientist. She has no interest in children. I have been wonderfully trained in repeating this like Ms Rhimes has served me with great enthusiasm, but more importantly I watch Cristina behave on the show and her stance towards children is a cool surgery material. If they are not, get rid of them. Abortion would be my main argument why she doesn´t want to be a mother, it is only backed up by episode 912. Did you watch Cristina behave towards children and say the things she said in 912? How can this person be a mother to anyone? Ye,she is loving to one child, to Meredith´s child, Zola. If the child is traumatised, suddenly she will have a change of heart and become a mother? Why didn´t she have her child with Owen? Why is this situation different ? Just because the child wil be traumatised, she will change her core? I would imagine Owen´s huge sadness over this. I see you point partly, they have both been through trauma and now they can help a child with trauma. It would be beautiful for me and I would definitely love it and support it in Cristina´s case, if Cristina didn´t abort her and Owen´s child. It will be beautiful for Owen, if it comes to it, and I will definitely support it, and be over the moon he is a dad,as it is the wish he still has ,because he didn´t want to abort his own child, he still wants to be a father and he is a person first. He only gave Cristina what she needed and caused a huge pain for himself in the end. Regarding adoption, yes, it is a human act and it should be promoted, but it is over-emphasized on the show because Shonda is an adoptive mother herself. I would say adoption is a higher risk, because you can´t fight the genes, no matter what upbringing you give to the child. And it can get very tricky if you have your own biological child then although the parent has the most honest motives. I want to see biological and adoptive parenthood being equal on the show, and they are not. Sadly, adoption is considered like you are a better human. In my opinion, biological parenthood is as human as deciding to be an adoptive/foster parent, but it is not put like that by the creator of the show herself. It is necessary to provide homes for orphans, but not at the expense of biological parenthood. The upcoming storyline between Owen and Ethan keeps me watching the show.
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Post by kaz on Mar 21, 2013 0:28:28 GMT -5
Okay, this is a request to move this conversation along. To the extent that it's a discussion of actual future spoilers, it's fine, but we are diverting into the realm of pro-choice vs. pro-life, adoption vs. biological procreation etc and that is far, far off topic (and very much a matter of personal opinion, coloured by experience, background, upbringing, culture etc - ie, there is no right or wrong answer so it's not something which should be debatable).
Thanking you wonderful members of the board in advance for your cooperation.
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Post by ushersboo97 on Mar 21, 2013 2:09:22 GMT -5
I can help. Who do you think breaks up? It's not Meredith and Derek. They confirmed that. I don't think it's Owen and Cristina either. There's no third party there. I think it's Matthew and April.
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Post by browncoatwhit on Mar 21, 2013 9:25:13 GMT -5
Usher -- I agree. Matthew & April make a safe choice. But Jackson & Stephanie would be an equally safe choice. And... any bets if Webber & Jackson's mum make it past the season finale?
For me, the question I've been obsessing over for the last few weeks is this: where are Cristina & Owen gonna live once they're a real couple again, especially if a foster kid/adopted kid enters the storyline in a serious way? Please, dear god --- NOT the frat house... I'm in deep mourning for the firehouse set.
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Post by kaz on Mar 21, 2013 15:36:35 GMT -5
Another request from me.
If you are talking about spoilers which are not in the Spoilers Only thread could you please find them and put them in there, appropriately sourced and credited.
That way everyone is on the same page and knows what is being considered and discussed. We can't assume that people keep up with spoilers elsewhere and the point is to have a lovely up to date spoiler thread of our own.
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Post by kaz on Mar 21, 2013 18:21:41 GMT -5
That breakup spoiler definitely sounds like it is about April & Matthew, I agree. We know there has been dishonesty in that relationship already with April telling him she's a virgin. The truth will come out shortly and all will be over, I think.
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Post by ushersboo97 on Mar 21, 2013 18:40:47 GMT -5
I think so too. I like Matthew somewhat, but he's not part of the show. He's only recurring, right?
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Post by justine on Mar 22, 2013 9:36:51 GMT -5
Shonda said that CO will struggle to stay in love, right ?
Since season 6, Owen is the one who has been competing with surgery, Teddy, Meredith and surgery again for Cristina's love and attention sucessfully or unsecessfully...
Now how about Cristina feeling...threatened by the 10 years old little boy for Owen's love and attention ? I still have in mind his love declaration to Cristina " Your are the love of my life. i will never love another woman ".
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Post by kaz on Mar 22, 2013 15:06:32 GMT -5
Shonda said that CO will struggle to stay in love, right ? Since season 6, Owen is the one who has been competing with surgery, Teddy, Meredith and surgery again for Cristina's love and attention sucessfully or unsecessfully... Now how about Cristina feeling...threatened by the 10 years old little boy for Owen's love and attention ? I still have in mind his love declaration to Cristina " Your are the love of my life. i will never love another woman ". Justine, where and when did Shonda say this? Please point us to the actual spoiler.
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